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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Sick of Nazis.

415 replies

manhavingbaby · 06/07/2012 20:42

Everywhere, all around you. They are looking, They're in your office chattering about immigration, they're in your local shop judging a black guy for the amount of money they have in there wallet, assuming criminality. They are possibly even your friends. AIBU in thinking even apologists are racist scum?

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 23:43

Where theres people theres racists is exactly my issue. That needs sorting. Cause where theres racists theres hatred etc

Yes but you can't sort human nature and for some people that seems to be exactly what it is.

All you can do is make laws against things but sadly you can't...and never will be able to police people's thoughts.

Education is the only way really.

Moominsarescary · 06/07/2012 23:43

We moved last week and have just tried the local chinese, it isn't very nice.

Usually we say Chinese or pizza?

HoneyDragonWearingLederhosen · 06/07/2012 23:45

Low carbing!

You look fab darling!

WorraLiberty · 06/07/2012 23:45

Oh shit....

If I answer "Yes" Olivia I can't go wrong can I? Grin

SillyBeardyDaddyman · 07/07/2012 06:57

People lead to racism. Racism leads to hate. Hate the path to the dark side is. Hmm.

Dprince · 07/07/2012 07:50

For me it was the use of 'nazis are everywhere'.
They are not. Racists are also to everywhere. There are many racisits but not everywhere.
Also nazis are not the same as neo nazis. You may refer to all racists as nazis, but that's not correct.
All nazis were racists but not all racists are nazis. To call all racists 'nazis' implies that all racists are white and looking at exterminating everyone else from the planet which is not true.
If you want an actual discussion then you should perhaps know what you are talking about.
The hysteria of 'nazis are everywhere' was going to be a sensible discussion.

HoneyDragonWearingLederhosen · 07/07/2012 09:00

Turned out to be rather fun though, apart from Olivia's cough Sad

manhavingbaby · 07/07/2012 09:34

I don't personally think there is anything wrong with calling all racists nazis. I know they are not members of the Nazi party. I also know that the only people as low as racists are nazis. I however am quite far flung in my views to the point where I would call someone who has issues with immigrants a Nazi. The reasoning goes like this: why do you have problems with people? Immigrants in particular? Your a Nazi that's why

OP posts:
OliviaLMumsnet · 07/07/2012 09:42

It's alright. Honeydragon. I was only clearing my throat. Grin

illcryifiwantto · 07/07/2012 09:47

i hate it when the nazis used to steal my sunbed when I'm on holiday i would get up at 4am and they were gone

only now its the bloody russians that do it

the nazis on holiday have united with the english to moan about the russians stealing the sun beds

i kid you not in turkey the russians put teabags on the sun bed to reserve them ( not used teabags btw)

then you get the fights between the russians and nazi have fights very entertaining it is

HoneyDragonWearingLederhosen · 07/07/2012 09:50

Yes Olivia. Have you considered you might be allergic to Mnetters? You tend to get that cough ever such a lot.

amillionyears · 07/07/2012 10:08

op,you probably have a serious point in there somewhere.But you cannot lump together racists and Nazis.
racists can sometimes just need a bit of educating.Nazis are a particular group of people.I presume you do actually know about their history.
To be taken seriously,with your points,I suggest you do some background reading first.
I think,and I could ave got it wrong,that you are talking about racism.You may want to start a thread about that,not mention Nazis at all unless you know of Nazi sympathisers who are racist??[not really sure what I am talking about at this point], and a name change wouldnt hurt either.

Latara · 07/07/2012 10:24

Not being pedantic manhavingbaby - but any human can be racist.
But any human couldn't be a Nazi / neo-Nazi unless they fit certain criteria as laid out by that Party.
If you someone is a racist just call them a racist. That's just as insulting as calling them a Nazi - but more accurate.

A Nazi / neo-Nazi is racist because one of their core beliefs is in the superiority of their own white race over people of other races. It's not to do with immigration - the Nazis were (and the neo-Nazis still are) murderously racist towards Jews & Roma, for example, whose families had lived in Europe for centuries.

They were not racist to everyone of different races - Hitler admired & recruited certain Islamic Fundamentalists because they were fanatical & willing to give their life for Islam. He actually recruited a Bosnian Muslim division into the SS. Neo-Nazis are similar in that respect - they pick & choose which races are 'acceptable' to them.

I think it's actually offensive to victims of both old Nazis & of the modern neo-Nazis to use the word Nazi outside of the proper context.

I've heard a Filippino woman i know being extremely racist when discussing more recent immigrants to the UK, yet she would never be allowed to join a neo-Nazi group as she is Filippino. Nor would she wish to. So i could have called her a 'Racist' but not a 'Nazi'.

Hope you can see what i mean??

lovebunny · 07/07/2012 10:31

south america. most of them went there. have they re-colonised europe? austria had a few left. what about russia? there were some neo-nazis there. and we have our own, of course.

Sallyingforth · 07/07/2012 10:47

I think it's entirely reasonable to treat Nazis as a joke. Not nazism of course, but the people who actually hold those beliefs. If people had laughed at Hitler's speeches he would never have got into power.
Chaplin's film 'The Great Dictator' pulled him to pieces with humour, ditto 'Springtime for Hitler'.

HoneyDragonWearingLederhosen · 07/07/2012 10:48

Or to summarise one is an ideology
The other a varied bunch of dickheads

WhosPickleisThatOnion · 07/07/2012 10:51

Nazis didn't limit their attention to some races either, they also wished to eliminate Jehovah's witnesses, homosexuality, disabled and sick people etc.

I think it's a lot more accurate for you to call racist people racists rather than nazis.

Sallyingforth · 07/07/2012 10:56

Just think if scientologists had been around in 1930's Germany...

manhavingbaby · 07/07/2012 11:59

A racist / neo-racist is racist because one of their core beliefs is in the superiority of their own race over people of other races. It's not to do with immigration [ of course it has strong connections to immigration] - the Racists were (and the neo-Racists still are) murderously racist towards Jews & Roma, for example, whose families had lived in Europe for centuries.
They were not racist to everyone of different races - Hitler admired & recruited certain Islamic Fundamentalists because they were fanatical & willing to give their life for Islam, A bit like tommy Robinson and his love of zionism . He actually recruited a Bosnian Muslim division into the SS. Neo-Racists such as the bpp and the edl are similar in that respect - they pick & choose which races are 'acceptable' to them, like the afro caribean community having an easier time than the islamic community, due to social and political pressure.

OP posts:
Latara · 07/07/2012 12:05

Don't underestimate people who have unpleasant beliefs... easy to treat them as a joke but actually a lot of the Nazis held doctorates.. if they weren't so clever & manipulative then they would never have got into power.
If the Nazis were 'just a joke' then their beliefs would not have spread around the world & people would not still hold similar beliefs today. People are actually getting regularly murdered in countries such as the Ukraine where neo-Nazi parties have a large amount of support

The Nazis did not wish to 'eliminate' Jehovah's Witnesses - they wanted to re-educate them. JWs were sent to concentration camps if they refused to stop preaching the Bible & renounce their belief in God's word over Hitler's. The men were shot as traitors if they refused to join the Army.

Any German homosexual who continued to live an openly gay lifestyle was imprisoned. The aim of the Nazis was to encourage people to marry & have lots of 'perfect German children' - so homosexuals who refused to deny their sexuality were sent to concentration camps.

Sadly those convicted of homosexual acts were often not set free at the end of the war - as it remained illegal to commit those acts for years in Germany just as in the UK.

In Germany the small minority of black people & mixed race people (with one black parent) were shunned, often sterilised & sometimes experimented on. They were badly persecuted but rarely routinely killed.

Not all disabled or sick people were subjected to the euthanasia action.
Instead the Nazis concentrated on getting rid of the seriously mentally ill & learning disabled elements of the population (eg schizophrenics, Down's Syndrome children); also those who were said to be suffering from certain 'hereditary abnormalities' (which weren't actually hereditary!) such as epilepsy. Again; the Nazis weren't stupid as they didn't wish to alienate many Germans - they mainly got rid of the groups who were already stigmatised & rejected before they came to power.

The main two groups that the Nazis attempted to eliminate (with the assistance of many in the occupied lands) were the Jews & Roma.
Germans with 1 Roma grandparent were at risk of being exterminated just as much as 'full' Roma people all over Europe - because the Nazis saw 'mixed Roma blood' as an 'anti-social threat to German blood'.

The Nazis saw the Jews as a racial group, not a religious group, & still killed those whose ancestors had converted to Christianity.
Those who had only 1 Jewish grandparent were left alone IF they did not 'look Jewish'. The Nazis continued to murder Jews & Roma until the last days of the war.

The Nazi policies towards the Slavic peoples of Eastern & South-Eastern Europe were confusing. Slavs were seen as 'sub-humans' to be used as slave labour when it suited Hitler; but some were allowed to be 'Aryanised' & become Nazi soldiers.

Some Slavs hated the Jews, Roma & Soviet Union (Communists) so much that they were willing to join the Nazis. Nazism also appealed to the strong Nationalist sentiment in the Ukraine & other countries; they knew the Nazis despised them but they hated & resented the Communists & Jews more.
The historic hatreds of the Jews, Roma & Communists are the reason for the large amount of support in Poland & the Ukraine for the neo-Nazi groups that formed after the Cold war finished.

It's ironic because the Nazis massacred or indirectly caused the deaths of millions of non-Jewish & non-Roma Slavic people too - especially Poles, Russians, Serbs & Belarussians.

manhavingbaby · 07/07/2012 12:14

At no point have i made the Nazi party sound less important than it was, I appreciate all the info I would however not be calling racists nazis, without first knowing the historical implications of the word first.

OP posts:
Dprince · 07/07/2012 12:26

but you have.

manhavingbaby · 07/07/2012 12:37

Dprince you are trolling and you know you are

OP posts:
OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 07/07/2012 12:46

OP
It is simply not correct to call all racists Nazis.
It does not make sense
Nazis were members of or signed up to an organisation with distinct ideologies.
Lee Bloggs from hackney might well be a total tosser who hates black people but tat doesn't mean he believes that Deaf people should be euthanaised and would probably recoile at the idea.

You passionate anti racism stance is to be commended but it is diluted by your refusal to discriminate

Chubfuddler · 07/07/2012 12:48

I feel a venn diagram coming on for the benefit of the op.