to find it demeaning to be made to use a wheelchair?

[RevoltingPeasant]

This happened a few months ago, but it is one of those stupid things that just niggles at you. I found myself thinking about it today and thought I'd ask AIBU.

I had to have an operation recently which involved me staying in hospital for one day for monitoring, sleeping there overnight, getting up early in the morning for a scan/ test to check all was okay, and then having the op (bit involved, sorry!).

When I got up for the early morning scan, which was in a different part of the hospital building, the nurse on duty told me I had to be wheeled down to the room in a chair by a HCA. This was their policy about patient transport, and she would not budge on it.

Now, I am 32 and perfectly healthy except for this one problem. I do not think it is a brilliant use of resources to ask an HCA to wheel an able-bodied 32yo around a hospital myself! But more than that, I found it quite disempowering to be made to sit there passively and get wheeled around.

Let me be clear: I don't think wheelchair users are demeaned/ disempowered. If someone has mobility issues and a chair is their way of moving themselves around, fine, and if I had mobility issues I don't think I'd find using a WC a problem. It's the being wheeled by someone else when I don't have mobility issues that I found frankly demeaning.

AIBU?

DS2 had to have some scans shortly after birth, when I was still leaking disgustingly and weak as a newborn kitten.

I was told to expect a HCA to take us both over from the Women's and Children's building to Radiology in the main building. I expected her to bring a wheelchair. But no, she brought a pram with non-swivel wheels. Fuck me. I've never staggered so badly.

When we had to take DS2 for follow-up scans a few months later, I allowed twenty minutes to get from W&C to Radiology, as it had taken that long first time. It took three...

A blanket policy I find less demeaning than a pragmatic approach, tbh. I was assessed as being able to walk, and wasn't really. Just putting everyone in a wheelchair means nobody has to make any potentially embarrassing or dangerous decisions.

YABU.

\its a health a safety thing its just a wheelchair hardly any funds were used int he pushing of the chair that is what the hsa is there for , you are being dramatic

featherbag I certainly wasn't suggesting that spite came into it - actually quite the opposite and I didn't intend to be rude.

In fact my last experience with an A&E nurse (also one of the paramedics, the other one was lovely) was following a v messy & screamingly painful mc when I felt like I was being treated like a child/piece of meat.

Is it really too much to expect to be treated like a human being? (generalising a little away from just the wheelchair issue I know)

The HCA would have had to go with you anyway. The chair just means you get there a bit quicker. Also, walking will increase your heart rate and BP - they probably want them as low as possible for scans / tests.

Add to that the risk of you tripping / falling / bumping into a wall are reduced to nil - any one of those could cancel your op costing the NHS money because they won't be able to use the theatre for someone else, and you would have to do the same thing again later.

twitch Thank you for your post - you and Serial. It is very interesting that the people who are most offended by my choice of word are not WC users.

Honestly, I cannot begin to imagine the effort of planning your days as you do and sometimes falling into dependence on the random kindness of strangers. It sounds like you have to have a 'hairdresser's conversation' every day! :) I'm glad I started this thread if only because it's made me think again about the experience of people with serious mobility issues.

featherbag thanks for coming back to clarify. I agree with you with that we use different language IRL to on an internet forum, and as someone who teaches, I will admit to the odd tart comment about my students when they are not there. I still find your original post, 'they get in a chair or they don't go' to be pretty unpleasant, but I don't think it's worth arguing about.

And I didn't refuse to go, precisely because she explained to me that I might get her in trouble.

but that ableism in our society ends up affecting everyone's views and perceptions, even if we don't want it to. Whilst it's annoying and patronising in any situation to have someone assume that you can't do something which you can, I wonder whether there's something about using a wheelchair specifically which feels 'demeaning' (= 'causing a loss of dignity, respect, social standing' according to the dictionary) in our culture. I doubt that you would feel 'demeaned' if someone had fetched something for you that you could easily fetch yourself, for example.

Marmite, that is really interesting and actually precisely the kind of thing I hoped someone would say when I started this! I knew there was something 'icky' about how I felt.

I think you are quite right. I have always been sporty, fit, and strong, and I became aware when I was in hospital that my strongest feeling was... humiliation. Not fear, but humiliation. Weird, eh? I think at a deep level many young/ able-bodied people sort of feel 'that will never happen to me, my body will never let me down'.

It's obviously a kind of arrogance that we need to overcome. In my case, I have a congenital kidney defect and I've suddenly gone from being a healthy person who takes care of my body and feels good to 'a patient'. It is interesting what a shock that is!

Interestingly, I was in hospital for a 'procedure' under GA yesterday. I had to walk to theatre with the nurse. Unforch- I had to take my contact lens out and was practically blind. A wheelchair would have been much less demeaning!

Actually I did teeter on finding it offensive but wanted to see what you really meant before sending the balloon up.

LRD has it bang on:
"I just think that it's quite understandable it would be demeaning, and saying so doesn't demean people who use wheelchairs. What'd be demeaning to them would be implying that it's ok for them but not for you, or implying they shouldn't mind being in wheelchairs (neither of which you did)." So all good, and an interesting topic to have broached.

I agree strongly with what twitch and MMMarmite are saying.

And sadly, I don't "fall into dependence on the random kindness of strangers" - I often build it into my plans from the start. Usually it's a stranger doing their job - railway staff, shop staff, etc - but even then one is dependent on whether they choose to be helpful.

The continued accusations on MN that disabled people seem to think they are "entitled" really sting. I know I have no right to get help from most people - I don't feel entitled to it. But put starkly I can't function without it in a world designed, as Marmite says, for a different norm.

That's why we fight like demons for things we legitimately can stake actual rights to, like Disability Living Allowance and accessible transport.

Meanwhile the government are slashing disability benefits and services, claiming they cause dependency.

I'm already fucking dependent. The difference is between dependence on hit and miss charity or dependence on someone I'm paying and therefore have a smidgeon of control over.

Talking of railway staff, can I give a HUUUUGE bouquet of to almost every one of you I've encountered since becoming ill.

You have gone out of your way to make me welcome and look after me and treat me like royalty. You make me feel like I'm what you're there for, not that I'm some pesky nuisance clogging up your day unlike the disability benefits people. What's wrong with this picture?

Special thanks to my local station. mwah to you all!

Uff, total x-post.

Sorry you may be looking at longer term health probs, RP. Hope it's all very manageable.

Completely agree about the "it will never happen to me" and change in self-image stuff. A huge shock, especially if you're used to being in charge of your destiny.

I've actually found a lot that chimes in the childbirth threads, where people talk about the shock of suddenly being treated as an animal - and not even the most important animal as baby comes first. Not being listened to, not considered able to make their own decisions, not being considered a full, equal human being.

Serial I wasn't going to post again as I actually do have work to do - but yes yes yes to your last post.

Sadly I think I am going to lose my kidney but as my surgeon never tires of telling me cheerfully, Lots of people live without a kidney and luckily you have two!

This is an interesting topic. The thing that scares me most about childbirth (at 37 weeks!) isn't pain, I honestly haven't given that a lot of thought (naively.. no doubt). Its the fear of being vulnerable at a time when I have the instinct that I need to be strong and competant enough to take care of my new baby. I really don't want to end up on bed, drugged, with people making decisions for me.

I guess for me its like going to the dentist. That's something I used to get really anxious about (though I'm a bit better now). I'm rather stoic when it comes to feeling actual pain and don't complain about it. But being on my back, unable to speak and not knowing what they are doing, all the time trying not to be drowned by their irrigator thingy... is pretty distressing for me.

I'm such a control freak I guess I'm just scared of losing bodily autonomy in childbirth. That said I'm pretty lazy, I'd probably be quite glad of the rest if I'm offered a wheelchair. Though I'll be reluctant to get on a bed or change into a gown etc.

On the other hand, my DM was in hospital for bariatric surgery. She was made to walk when she felt unable to do so. She didn't complain, though another bariatric patient did. Other patients who were having abdominal surgery for other reasons (even if they were overweight) were not forced to walk. She felt like she was being treated patronisingly because of the type of surgery she was in for, like they were trying to make the walk part of a new exercise regime.

I presume that it was the case that the H&S for staff was conflicting with the H&S for patients in this instance, even though it must be more difficult to pick up a heavier person from the floor if they collapse. But I can understand why my DM felt she was being discriminated against because of her weight.

revoltingpeasoant i know this isn't what you want to hear but you will feel so much better with your kidney removed i got mine out 14 years ago and i felt better almost right away , well until morning sickness kicked in I was early pregnant and i didnt know and had the op

I suppose there might also be a higher risk of DVT in larger patients, so that might also explain why they insisted that they walk. Like I said, my mum didn't kick up a fuss but I think she witnessed another patient do so!

Its so that people don't see your bottom when your gown is open at the back

Mrsjay - hope you don't mind, I have pm'd you.

My mum had a cancerous kidney removed donkeys years ago. Ok - so she only had about 24% of the remaining one working, but she never had to go on dialysis (and she was in her 60s when she had the op). Kidneys are tough little buggers! She had to watch the diet (potassium, caffein and alcohol, but I can't say it stopped her eating tirimasu and drinking the odd glass of wine).

Good luck with the op (if you need it that it).

Interestingly, in German the term is wheelchair drivers. I think that's a better description. Users implies passengers. You use trains, but you drive a car. The agency is in the word.

No one feels demeaned by their Audi TT.

I remember when I gave birth in US they made me use a wheelchair when I was discharged. It was ridiculous! I was perfectly well, 2 days after the birth. They wheeled me to the entrance where I stood up, took the baby and walked to the other end of the car park. All to do with fear of litigation.