to find it demeaning to be made to use a wheelchair?

[RevoltingPeasant]

This happened a few months ago, but it is one of those stupid things that just niggles at you. I found myself thinking about it today and thought I'd ask AIBU.

I had to have an operation recently which involved me staying in hospital for one day for monitoring, sleeping there overnight, getting up early in the morning for a scan/ test to check all was okay, and then having the op (bit involved, sorry!).

When I got up for the early morning scan, which was in a different part of the hospital building, the nurse on duty told me I had to be wheeled down to the room in a chair by a HCA. This was their policy about patient transport, and she would not budge on it.

Now, I am 32 and perfectly healthy except for this one problem. I do not think it is a brilliant use of resources to ask an HCA to wheel an able-bodied 32yo around a hospital myself! But more than that, I found it quite disempowering to be made to sit there passively and get wheeled around.

Let me be clear: I don't think wheelchair users are demeaned/ disempowered. If someone has mobility issues and a chair is their way of moving themselves around, fine, and if I had mobility issues I don't think I'd find using a WC a problem. It's the being wheeled by someone else when I don't have mobility issues that I found frankly demeaning.

AIBU?

You are allowed to see what's written about you, but it has to be done officially. You can request to view your own notes but it isn't practical during an acute setting. The 'notes' at the bottom of your bed are just charts (I would imagine - obviously I don't work at your hospital, everywhere is different), I really am referring to your main folder of notes.

Funny, I just said Weeeeeeeeeeeeee! and suggested wheelchair races.

Now I actually need one though. This was previously during pregnancy admissions.

Incidentally, we "walk" patients to theatre every day. Personally, if it hadn't been far I would have walked with you to your appointment/scan/whatever. My experience this morning just goes to show though, you make judgements based on clinical reasoning. If my patient had fallen and injured himself, my decision making could be called into question.

X post Bander but make the same point. Blanket policies do serve a purpose though to protect patients the staff and the trust.

"in my experience the person least capable of assessing a patient's ability to walk somewhere safely without keeling over is the patient themselves"

wonder why people feel vulnerable and disrespected with this 'I'm God' attitude?

Thanks Bat :)

Bandersnatch - yes, one of the principal reasons I didn't make a fuss was how embarrassed the nurse was. I felt bad for her. She couldn't budge on the policy, but given that her HCA was leaving behind a ward with an elderly diabetic woman who had just had her toes amputated and another woman who had really severe faecal incontinence to wheel me around, she did see how absurd it was. She totally had common sense, just wasn't allowed to use it!

The other thing is - sorry, prob drip feeding - is that my problem is kidney-related and sitting often makes it hurt, so I was avoiding sitting as much as possible in hospital! Ironic, eh.

Vix - yes exactly. I try not to be rude to anyone on MN but I have to say, thank God that person wasn't caring for me. What a horrid attitude to other people left in your care :(

Thanks RP (belatedly, sorry.)

Heya,

YABU it isn't about you. And it sounds like the nurse tried to explain. All hospitals are the same. I'm 24 and was the same.

The rationale is that the person moving u is a porter, not trained medicaaly. So for example you stumbled on them, injuring them, wud leave the hosp open to negligence. Moving any patient not in a chair needs risk assessed - whole faff.

Also say you said u felt sick or chest pains, they cudnt be of any help but this way can rush u down the corridor.

As for notes. Its partly so doctors can be honest. Say I write anxious++ and its true and you demand to see what I have written, there and then, how much longer will I be honest for, to save the hassle?

Whereas if u read that a few weeks later in calmer settings, it will be easier to read, in context and you can knock the head of the doc.

Several cars stopped so my husband could push me across the road. When we got to the other side, the pavement wasn't lowered, so I had to stand to get onto the pavement. the drivers faces were It had been entirely unintentional, but my DH and I still giggle about that some years later.

I hate the misconception that wheelchair users must always be unable to walk. (Not saying you're perpetuating it thumper, just your post brought it up.) I use a wheelchair or mobility scooter because I get exhausted walking more than very short distances. My house isn't wheelchair accessible, so I stand up to walk through the door - it sometimes seems like people are staring and thinking I'm a fraud. I've mostly stopped caring what people think these days, but it really bothered me at first.

OP - I think your thread title was poorly chosen, despite what you clarified later on. But I can see that having your personal choice and self-reliance taken away at hospital must be really uncomfortable.

Aye Marmite I can walk pretty well, but there are times I might fall over or when I need the rest a wheelchair or mobility scooter gives my legs.

RP and Vix I do not have an 'I'm God' attitude, now would I do anything out of 'spite', I don't have a spiteful bone in my body and I'm somewhat that you are so rude!

I'm an A&E nurse, and my statement was based on long and painful experience. Your judgement that you're fine to walk is based on the fact that you feel fine right now. My judgement that you're not is based on the fact that I am responsible for your wellbeing while you're in my (frankly, excellent) care, and I have seen firsthand, many times, how quickly 'fine' can become 'lying on the floor' with little or no warning.

Of course I wouldn't cancel the investigations of someone who refused transport, through spite or any other reason, but I would take a very long time which I could be using to look after another patient explaining why it's a good idea and then fully document what I'd explained, that the patient had confirmed their understanding, and refused anyway. Unfortunately, with healthcare being so litigious now, it's CYA all the way in hospitals, and you surely can't blame me for that?!

Oh honestly, how long was it for, 5 mins? I'm sure you will get over it. I imagine it was a H and S issue.

holidays - but the person who wheeled me was not a porter, he was a HCA - healthcare assistant - he does have some medical training and does obs, basic patient care. So he was being taken away from a ward of other women who had had operations to take care of someone who hadn't. And who didn't want his help then.

Marmite - thanks - honestly, it was very deliberately chosen because that was how I felt. Stupid and disempowered. That might be wrong or a bad way to feel, in which case I'd honestly be happy to talk about it, but it is how I felt.

This happened to me too before my repair op after two big babies - I thought it ridiculous but did not argue and afterwards needed it! It seems to be standard procedure perhaps?

featherbag - right, sorry for being snippy with you. I was. But don't you see that saying 'my patients get in a chair or they don't go to their scans' is really unpleasant to someone feeling vulnerable?

The nurse who dealt with me saw how silly the policy was, laughed and rolled her eyes, and said 'But it's our policy and I really have to insist or I'd get in trouble.' So I did, even though I didn't like it.

tbh if she had said what you said in your post it would've got my back right up. Caring for someone should not be the same as controlling them, imo.

Also there is a massive difference I would think between a patient in A&E and someone admitted for a planned op with no obvious health problems that would cause them to pass out.

The only time I've ever ridden in a wheelchair (actually except for being transferred from the midwife-led unit to the labour ward during labour, but I don't really remember that) was when I was in a car accident abroad when pregnant and was taken into hospital just for observation (I was fine, but would have felt too shaky to walk even if that had been an option). I found it a very disconcerting experience, not knowing which direction I was going to be pushed in next, and being pushed at speed towards closed doors, wondering if my legs were going to be rammed through (a porter did open them before we got there!). Plus there was a language barrier. It did give me a small insight into what it's like to use wheelchairs (and pushchairs for that matter, though obviously it's not the same thing).

There was no need but I do thik you have too much time on your hands to still feel demeaned.

YABU Get over it.

RP as I've just said, I would've taken a long time explaining why it was necessary in RL, not just said that directly to a patient, this is an internet forum and we all use different language online and in RL! And you're right, there is a difference between A&E patients and those admitted routinely, however I do have experience of those admitted for routine ops/investigations fainting through anxiety, having fasted for a procedure, etc. As I am legally responsible for those in my care, and I take that very seriously, I'd always err several miles into the side of caution and insist as much as I was able that they use wheelchairs when moving around the hospital. I think by demanding to walk YWBU, as you'd potentially be putting the job of the person arranging for you to get where you need to be at risk.

For the record, I've had 2 thank you cards just this week from patients and/or their families for the care I've given them. I'm a good nurse.

I also agree that as a WC user it IS demeaning and I do feel like a toddler.
I think I am in a very similar position to SerialKipper - Sometimes I am mobile enough to use sticks and when I am unwell I use a hired scooter/power chair when I can, but the stupid, stupid mid-week days that the shop is shut means I sometimes have no choice but to go out in my manual- today I managed to get myself to the bus stop on my manual wc, and a lady who was well into her 70's had to help me onto the bus, even though the access ramp was down.

I then got stuck in 110 shop doors and was bumped into 770 others by very well meaning strangers who wanted to help. the small talk is what I find hard - people will say I am going to X shall I push you? and my response is often a bowled over Yes Please! but then I really do not want to tell you my name, age, medical history, and the in's and out's of my relationship...and i think it is down to politeness that people want to chat as we sail down the high street, but it is difficult.

Yes, anyway OP - I do not think your word choice is U, but there is often no ability to compromise on H&S advice. it needs to be done, and that HCA's and porters do not choose these rules & may agree that they are U but they could be penalized if they do not follow them. also, people who are ill or in hospital are often the worst to make a reliable assemsent of their ability to walk/not wonder off ect and even if this did not apply to you it can't be a rule for one and not for another. tis difficult.

and agree with MMarmite, the misconception that using a WC = no mobility at all is..strange.
I get people looking at me as if I am a con artist if I use the WC but hop out at my front door...if i had to walk around town though, i could never leave the house because the pain/fatigue/weakness.
When I first became poorly I refused to rely on a chair and it ended up in having 999 constantly called by members of the public as i;d collapse without warning due to exhaustion/pain and a parmedic had a kind but stern workd with me about not pushing the limits. I have done extra damage to my knees, hips and foot because I favour sticks over the scooter or chair because I hate not being so independant. it is incredibly difficult to adapt. I am 23 and I get stared at for using a scooter because it is for 'old people'

Marmite - thanks - honestly, it was very deliberately chosen because that was how I felt. Stupid and disempowered. That might be wrong or a bad way to feel, in which case I'd honestly be happy to talk about it, but it is how I felt.

Personally I reacted quite strongly to your title because 'demeaning' is a strong word: I think it suggests that your reaction is partly because of ableism. By that I don't mean that you're a bad person (you seem lovely ), but that ableism in our society ends up affecting everyone's views and perceptions, even if we don't want it to. Whilst it's annoying and patronising in any situation to have someone assume that you can't do something which you can, I wonder whether there's something about using a wheelchair specifically which feels 'demeaning' (= 'causing a loss of dignity, respect, social standing' according to the dictionary) in our culture. I doubt that you would feel 'demeaned' if someone had fetched something for you that you could easily fetch yourself, for example.

I've certainly felt disempowered and like a child when being pushed in a wheelchair. Is this because it's inherently disempowering, not being able to control where you're going, how fast, and being reliant on someone else? Or is it because our society and media and stereotypes tend to show wheelchair users as powerless victims, rather than skilled people in positions of power? I suspect it is a bit of both.

It's also interesting to think about what we mean by independent and dependent. Obviously no human is independent of other humans, unless we live on an island, grow our own food, build our own shelter and so on. Disability activists have argued that society defines "independence" to be exactly the level of dependence on others that a non-disabled person has. Any other dependence suddenly means you are "dependent". So if you got a bus or taxi or a lift from a friend home from the hospital, you're dependent on the driver, and also dependent on all of the engineers who built the vehicle, and the people who built and maintain the road, but you still feel independent. No-one would argue that those dependences are disempowering or demeaning. Being pushed in a wheelchair is seen as disempowering, but being driven somewhere usually isn't. Why is that?