To wonder why on earth you would not vaccinate your DCs?

[olimpia]

I hear from another thread that some people choose not to vaccinate their DCs at all and I'm genuinely interested to hear why because I can't think of a single reason not to. I can perhaps understand opting out of the MMR if someone believes the bad press (not that I do) but all the other vaccinations? Why, oh why?
(not a troll! Just relatively new to MN)

"you can not vaccinate and be socially responsible (i.e. stay in)."

What do you mean?! You surely don't mean to stay in always. So I expect you mena to stay in when you're ill?

But surely you know that with measles for just one example "It can be transmitted by an infected person from four days prior to the onset of the rash to four days after the rash erupts."

So adopting a policy of staying in when ill won't actually stop the spread of this dangerous disease, will it?

'two wrong's don't make a right'

How's a decision 'wrong' if it doesn't affect anyone else? We knew we'd been infected so we stayed in prior to the rash becoming visible; prior to any symptoms. Oh pass me my halo now.

While the mother with the vaccinated child knew she'd been exposed but figured it was okay as the child had been vaccinated, and then ignored the rash. Or rather just assumed the rash couldn't be rubella.

How about smallpox Bumbley? Since you wish to go back to the vaccine free world of your grandparents (although they probably vaccinated against it). Do you regret the elimination of smallpox THROUGH VACCINATION?

Saintly. My point is that just because someone may act irresponsibly by not excluding a child with rubella doesn't make it less socially irresponsible for someone can vaccinate not to do so.

alice - in the case of measles it is most infectious during the prodromal period. This does have quite clear symptoms. If ds2 or ds3 have prodromal type symptoms I get out the torch and check for koplik's spots (and for the next few days) and we keep out of the way of anyone who might be at particular risk, and would tell anyone they were off to play with (so they could choose).

TBH we don't really go to busy public spaces with ds1 in tow (not through choice - because he can't handle it) so we do spend a lot of time not in contact with others, or outside in wide open spaces.

Obviously if I knew they had been exposed I would do as we did with rubella and stay in during the potentially infectious period.

bumble - pretty impressed you're sticking to your policy. And you claim not to be anti-vax? intersting. At least with your honesty all posters on here will see where you're coming from.

Good that you have a pretty competent immue system too, good for you that is - you sure your DCs would have faired the same?

I probably would have lost my DS with him born so young. Not to mention many, many millions of other lives affected by these terrible diseases. Survival of the fittest though, n'est pas?

Well, I'm still wondering if Bumbley would like to see the elimination of smallpox reversed in order to enjoy the diseases available during her grandparent's time.

"We knew we'd been infected so we stayed in prior to the rash becoming visible; prior to any symptoms."

But what about people who don't know they've been infected?

"in the case of measles it is most infectious during the prodromal period." this my be the most infectious period, but this doesn't stop the fact that it starts being infectious 4 days before symptoms appear.

I reacted very badly to smallpox vaccination. And if it were available now couldn't give it anyway as three people in the household have eczema (and so it's contraindicated in anyone they might come into contact with).

Can I ask, I'm curious. Why do the risks of vaccinations seem so much bigger than the risks of disease to you?

To me it's obvious that - while vaccinations are far from risk free - living in an unvaccinated population is much more risky than having the jabs.

I never had the smallpox vaccination. Do you know why? Because vaccination ELIMINATED the disease globally (due to the effect of the elusive herd immunity). Surely that is a GOOD THING!!!! Now no child needs to be vaccinated against smallpox. We can do the same with polio with a bit more effort. Living in a polio free world will be a GOOD THING!

I think Bumbley must be bonkers if she wants to live in a world with smallpox and polio just because her grandparents did.

No - it's infectious 4 days before the RASH appears i.e. DURING the prodromal period. Measles is not asymptomatic then. ]

Ooh see while I was busy researching how to best protect my children and avoid having another child regress into severe disability I was busy researching how best to protect other people's children as well. Darn it eh? A socially responsible person who has chosen not to vaccinate two of her three children.

Oh, but bumbley will be ok so that's alright then!

Around my way vaccination rates are among the lowest in the country. We have a VERY high incidence of measles and whooping cough. I know of a baby who died of whooping cough before reaching the age at which the vaccination is given, during the last year. I also know of several children who have been hospitalised for measles.
I am of the generation for whom measles was part of childhood (and my sister was very seriously ill with it she was a small baby when she caught it from me). If you can vaccinate your children to help protect those who are too young, or immuno-compromised, or whatever then you should. There may be very responsible people, as some of those on this thread who are looking, eagle-eyed, for the first hint of measles so that they can quarantine their non-vaccinated children but for every one of those there are going to be parents who haven't vaccinated and inadvertently spread disease. As the infection rates show. And the death rates.

I didn't say I wanted to 'go back to the vaccine free world of my grandparents' I was saying that LeBFGs description wasn't that different to what life was like for my parents and grandparents and it wouldn't really bother me. No more than it bothered them I imagine.

WRT smallpox - I'm not sure if they were vaccinated against smallpox or not. I know that early smallpox vaccines were incredibly risky and many people opted out of them. Iirc, putting people with SP in isolation so that it couldn't spread was found to be just as effective and less risky than the vaccine.

LeBFG, why are you saying 'I would be alright' in relation to Elaine's question about SP? I didn't mention it previously and your post implies that I did.

Gnushoes, there are also parents who have vaccinated and still spread disease because they don't realise that what they have is measles/whooping cough/mumps etc because 'it couldn't possibly be, he/she has been vaccinated!' . When was the last time you had your whooping cough immunity tested btw?

As an example op ( and my two are fully vaccinated although I did feel as though I was poisening whilst I watched the nurse do it), for a vaccine containing mercury, I'd consider not vaccinating but I'd weigh up the likely hood of them catching the virus.

For something like the HPV vaccine for girls to alledgedly protect against cervical cancer, I would allow my dd to have it. This is because I've researched big time into it and I'm not happy at all with US research on the vaccine and the side effects - mainly paralysis.

This is my choice and if my dd wants to have the vaccine once she gets older, that's her choice but I believe we, as parents, should choose to do as we wish.

Lastly, I know that big pharma companies don't make vaccines for the benefit of the world masses; they do it to make money and so from that perspective, I am quite anti a lot of vaccines for things such as bird flu/swine flu.

Very true gnushoes. Often the other children in the household who are infected by a child who brings home the disease get it far far worse due to the viral exposure being much higher. That would be a huge concern to me if I had more than one unvaccinated child in my household, especially an infant.

LeBFG, I'm pretty sure 'anti-vaxers' don't advocate testing for immunity and vaccinating if required.

That should have read NOT ALLOW my dd to have the HPV vaccine.

Right, smallpox was eradicated globally due to isolating cases not due to the vaccination campaigns (which did later involve identification and isolation followed by ring vaccination once cases became more sporadic). Where on earth do you get your misinformation from?

Sorry, i did paraphrase you Bumbley. You said living wihtout vaccines like your parents and grandparents wouldn't bother you and I assumed you meant you'd like to live without vaccines like they did. So basically it wouldn't bother you to live in world with smallpox because you can always isolate cases of smallpox (and of course have access to modern medicine to treat it since we're all just scaremongering about the dangers of diseases)! Blimey!! And a polio free world, bleugh, who cares? If our grandparents had to deal with it, good enough for me!

Bumbley never. But arguably I am less likely to catch or pass it on than someone who was never vaccinated....

Bumble - There was a post delay I think Bumbley must be bonkers if she wants to live in a world with smallpox and polio just because her grandparents did.

I reassured her that at least you would be ok.

Opting to live in a world were no-one was vaccinated would logically imply you were anti-vax. You may like to talk about testing and the like, but you don't really mean it, do you?

No - it's infectious 4 days before the RASH appears i.e. DURING the prodromal period. Measles is not asymptomatic then. ]

What are the symptoms exactly? When I had measles, I was in school in the days before the rash appeared. I think I was behaving a little oddly on the day before I was off ill, but on the other 3 days before that, I was my normal chirpy self.