To wonder why on earth you would not vaccinate your DCs?

[olimpia]

I hear from another thread that some people choose not to vaccinate their DCs at all and I'm genuinely interested to hear why because I can't think of a single reason not to. I can perhaps understand opting out of the MMR if someone believes the bad press (not that I do) but all the other vaccinations? Why, oh why?
(not a troll! Just relatively new to MN)

But you can protect against CRS by vaccinating girls at puberty (as mentioned by cote above). It's not dangerous to the child or adult who has it - only to those in the first trimester of pregnancy.

As I have said a million times ds1 caught rubella from a vaccinated child as the mother didn't realise vaccination didn't guarantee immunity (and her child wasn't ill with rubella just had a rash so she carried on as normal). We knew ds1 had been exposed and stayed in.

Why are you just randomly pasting this stuff? There's nothing new. This is very relevant to measles: Severe measles is more likely among poorly nourished young children, especially those with insufficient vitamin A, or whose immune systems have been weakened by HIV/AIDS or other diseases.

"But you can protect against CRS by vaccinating girls at puberty (as mentioned by cote above). It's not dangerous to the child or adult who has it - only to those in the first trimester of pregnancy."

There are many adults in this country who are not vaccinated, for one reason or another. Yes you can protect your grandchildren from getting CRS by getting your DDs vaccinated at puberty, but if they're wandering around infecting people before then then you are putting other people's babies at significant risk.

Actually in the year the US had 5 flatulence related deaths they had one from measles. (Granted there was presumably a lot more flatulence than measles around).

Alice, have you read what you linked to? Are you saying that you still think rubella and mumps still pose a serious risk to their children and that they could kill them (which was what you posted originally). Remember that we're talking about the risk to the child itself - not a baby in utero.

"Why are you just randomly pasting this stuff?"

bumbleymummy asked where I was getting my information from.

Well the only person we've come across wandering around infecting people was the vaccinated child.

I think she was asking for context surely. The risks from measles to a malnourished child are very different from the risks to a child with no vitamin A deficiency.

Ah ok, so we're back on the 'for the greater good' argument. (not what you posted about originally by the way)

"Remember that we're talking about the risk to the child itself - not a baby in utero."

You may be talking just about the child. I'm not.

I despair that people see it as just a personal choice, when if we don't vaccinate our DCs then we are risking a pandemic or worse an epidemic happening.

And you should think about how you affect others!

Well I'm still wondering Alice. Can you point out the information from those sources that convinced you tht mumps and rubella (we can move on to measles in a moment) we're extremely risky and dangerous for the child?

"Ah ok, so we're back on the 'for the greater good' argument."

Yes, because these are my personal views.

What I posted originally was in response to the OP, asking why people don't vaccinate. I was sharing my surprise that my friends seemed well versed in the possible effects of vaccinations but hadn't balanced that out by any research on the diseases themselves, and didn't seem to think they were a risk at all. This was a surprise to me.

Have you actually read the thread Alice?

So do you think it's ok for a vaccinated child to spread rubella everywhere because the mother hasn't taken the time to find out that vaccination doesn't guarantee immunity Alice?

" Can you point out the information from those sources that convinced you tht mumps and rubella (we can move on to measles in a moment) we're extremely risky and dangerous for the child?"

My point was not that they were extremely risky. My point was that my friends didn't realise that they were a risk at all.

Sheesh!

Alice, you were talking about your friends' children:

"I realised that although they'd done loads of research on the risks of vaccinations (some reasonable, but much of it from pretty dubious sources) they were woefully ignorant on the dangers of the actual diseases that the vaccinations were preventing.

They thought that Measles, Mumps and Rubella weren't that serious, and that they certainly couldn't kill you "

We are so incredibly lucky to be living in an age of such low infant and child mortality that the risks of childhood diseases are relatively high for us. Of course 60 years ago, people accepted measles etc as a fact of life, it just was a part of childhood and you had to take the unavoidable risk, look at poor Roald Dahl and his daughter who died of measles. Of course poorly nourished children or children with weakened immune systems are more likely to have complications of ANY disease. It doesn't make it risk free for healthy children.

Also looking at mortality alone is misleading. Child death, thankfully, is a rare event these days. Even children who have complications from childhood diseases in developed countries will usually survive due to modern medicine although deaths can and do occur. In contrast, I don't know of even one case in recent history of a child dying from a vaccination.

However a) there can be permanent and severe disabilities as a result of childhood diseases, this is much more common eg deafness, brain damage and b) who wants to expose their children to the whole unpleasantness of having to be hopsitalized, hooked up to IV antibiotics due to secondary infections etc etc etc. It's all easily avoidable!

I'm not 'terrified' of chicken pox, I had it as a child and it was mild. But I don't want my children to have to take the risk (and general unpleasantness) of having chicken pox when there is a safe and effective vaccine which wasn't available when I was a child. I think it's almost scandalous that it's not been rolled out in the UK unlike almost any other developed country.

saintlyjimjams that's a loaded question and I'm not sure how to answer it!

bumbleymummy Yes, I was talking about my friends' DCs. What's your point?

My two anti-vax neighbours have also, independantly, told me they don't think measles kills.

Bumble - would you like to have your children running around and playing with other children in a world were there were NO vaccinations? Carry a baby to term whilst being surrounded by everyone else NOT vaccinated?

Yes ds1 goes to a school with children who have been severely disabled as a result of infection (meningitis springs to mind). He also goes to school with children who have had severe adverse reactions to vaccinations (actually I can think of more of that group, than those who are there following damage from infection). Of course many children are there due to birth injuries or genetic conditions :(

Why's it a loaded question Alice? You're happy to judge those who don't vaccinate and 'spread diseases everywhere'. I'm pointing out that you can not vaccinate and be socially responsible (i.e. stay in). And you can vaccinate, not bother to do even the slightest bit of reading and as a result of your ignorance spread rubella everywhere.

Alice I posted your original quote in response to this:

"You may be talking just about the child. I'm not."

I wouldn't have a problem with it LeBFG. That would pretty much be the world my grandparents and parents grew up in only with better access to healthcare etc.

I had measles, mumps and rubella as a child so I was immune to them during pregnancy - it wouldn't have mattered who was around me. Much safer than trying to depend on other people's (probably waning) vaccine induced immunity IMO.

Actually, saintly if everyone who could immunize did immunize then the chances of the rubella being 'spread everywhere' are minimal due to herd immunity. And you're often most contagious before you've developed symptoms when your viral load is highest post infection. And anyway, as my mother would say, two wrong don't make a right.