to be aghast at the effort my sister puts into her children's schoolwork

[parakeet]

My sister is a few years older than me, had children before me and in many ways she's been a bit of role model for me. Hers are now teenagers, and I would have thought they should be fairly independent by now. But with the 13-year-old she is in charge of what subject he's revising, how long he does, then she tests him at the end. Even the 15-year-old is monitored to ensure she does X amount of hours a day, plus instrument practice. They are both fairly bright, by the way, and at a private school.

I'm very curious to know if this is standard. And I'm really hoping it's not because I can't bear the thought of having to go through all this with mine in future. I can't understand it because our parents didn't treat me or my sister like this at all - we made our own decisions. She was a super swot, I was a last-minute crammer - our choice, and we both did OK.

I'm worried that when my children are at this stage, if I leave it up to them and they do badly, they'll hold it against me later. On the other hand, I CANNOT FACE going through the torture of GCSEs, A levels all over again, TWICE.

Not that "those who don't pay fees care less" but rather they (well me!) are willing to realise that the child's education is in their own hands and hand that responsibility over in little bits at the right time.

Sort of like learning to ride a bike- stabilisers at primary- check it's done, check iy's understood and correctly answered as well as they can.... early secondary a "hand on the back" - do you know what/how to do it and when/how to hand in and when the time is right let go- maybe even run along so they don't "know you''ve let go" BUT hold on too long when they are riding a bike and getting balance and going solo gets harder.....

ImperialBlether, re. your question to the "benign neglect" group - my dd1 is at a state grammar school.

I also think it has to do with the personality of the child. The 13 yr old is ferociously independent and (as she's also very academic) is getting high grades on the "neglect" regime. She's my oldest so I have no other experience, but I'm already having to take a more involved approach with her primary-aged, less academic/independent sister. So I may have a different story in a few years' time.

Cripes, but looking back - the "getting organised" stage at the start of Yr 7 was a different thing entirely. Not about the work as such, but we had to stick timetables and checklists on the doors, pack her bag together, sort books and papers by subject... ... but it's still a question of facilitating the learning. And she was only 11 at the time.

"Hmmm I was a lazy arse and I will be making sure my dc do the work required.I'll never try and push a square peg into a round hole so to speak but I will ensure that what school require is being done.Maybe less so for A levels.I see it as my job to be frank."

If I left it up to DD to organise her homework she would be late home every day because she would be in detention. Unfortunately she does need pushing and reminding to do her homework, and yes I could let her not do it and take the consequences, but then she would miss the school bus and muggins here would have to go to school to collect her, as there are no more buses.

I am in awe of those of you who have children who are self motivated but DD is not one of them. And a little at the smug, and obviously very bright ones, who got straight As without being pushed. Not all children are the same, and while DD is in the top sets for her subjects at school she does need steering.

Well, my mum did what your sister did.

left to my own devices, I would probably have have dropped out of school altogether (like my best mate did)

But who knows, maybe I would have pulled my socks up?

We will never know. I do feel grateful to her for pushing me (never too much though) and helping me with my homework.

I am planning to check and help my DC. My oldest is capable but lazy (like me!) so will need a bit of supervision. My youngest is so self motivated, I reckon I can leave him to it.

It depends on the child.

Many Asian parents do this as its part of their culture and many of these kids are successful.

Agree with this. It is totally normal. It is not because of a lack of trust in the child, it is simply a case of getting them to achieve their best at school and go to a good uni and and get a good job.

I come from an Asian family and my parents always helped me with my homework and ask questions etc. They never forced me to do anything. There was no pressure at all. I was happy for them to help me and happy that they were so interested in my school work.
I was sent to many extra curricular activities, including piano (which i was very successful at) and it was fine to drop an activity if I wasn't enjoying it or getting anything out of it.

I intend to parent in the same way. My DH is a secondary school teacher and says it is very important to be involved in the DCs school work, and they do need encouragement and steering in the right way.

Different children need different types of support to get through school, and the support that parents need to provide will depend not just on the child's need but on the share of support provided by school.

However, in this day and age, if you want to outsource your DC's education in its entirety (as was standard a generation ago) you might find boarding school to be the best option.

Bunbaker, are you saying that those of us whose children are independent and getting straight As without being pushed are somehow less entitled to contribute to the discussion? Why is our experience less valid than yours?

I can't speak for the others but in our case, I've just stated the situation with one of my dds. The other one may be different at that age - in fact, already appears to be so. I can't see how that is "smug" at all - it's only my contribution to the thread. My point, like yours, was that it's probably about the individual child.

parakeet - DSs have just finished their school exams (Yr 5 and YR 7).

We sat down and worked out a revison timetable for them for the first half of summer term. They would not have been capable or organising it themselves. We also made sure they stuck to the timetable. We also make sure they do their homework every day. We make sure they practice piano. We do help them revise by reading out questions or sitting with them and helping if they get stuck with homework.

They go to private school and I do not think I should be teaching my children when I pay someone else to do that but I think I need to be an engaged parent. It does not have to be overbearing but making sure they do 30 minutes of reading every day and do their homework on time and prepare well for exams is my job.

I wasn't referring to you Owls. Some posters seem to think we should leave children to their own devices, but that is because they are lucky enough to have self motivated children. I am not. DD's best friend just does her homework the minute she walks through the door from school. DD waits until 9pm the night before it is due in. Or she would, but I timetable it so she doesn't.

She has just started the year 8 curriculum and they have ramped up the homework significantly. When I ask what homework she has and when it is due she might say maths, but it isn't due until Thursday. What she isn't taking into account is that other teachers will give her homework tomorrow and Wednesday.

Sigh, I am finding being a parent of a preteen harder than that of a primary age child.

Yes, I can see that sort of thing heading our way in a year or two, Bun. My two are so different that it's clear there is no "one size fits all".

To some extent, I don't think the number of A*s achieved is a measure of very much. It is legally and ethically the responsibility of the parent to educate their children. If you can outsource some of that to a state or independent school, that is useful. But the responsibility to educate a child still lies with the parent. I suppose it is different if your child is in a boarding school and another adult is supervising prep and extra curricular activities, but even then parents still often do educational activities in the holidays.

I don't really understand the 'forcing them to work' idea. Learning is enjoyable. I enjoy it and my kids is enjoy it. It is good to share that enjoyment. DS is dropping History and not continuing with it at GCSE. His sister is now starting secondary school in September, and we will be starting learning History from 1066 over the holidays. DS will be doing it too because even though it isn't an examined subject for him anymore, it is still important to have a good knowledge and interest in History. I'm intending to combine it with developing art techniques.

I worry a bit that people view the whole of intellectual and creative life as some kind of necessary evil to get through with the minimum amount of involvement and interest from parents and children. If my child didn't like discussing academic work with others beyond the minimum required by their school, what do they want to go to university for? The piece of paper I suppose.

Interesting post Caramel

yes bunbaker, one of my best friends has two smart self motivated girls, and she tut tuts at my "management" and sending my children private (after it went all pear shaped after 3 years state).

She is so smug about her "low effort high result", versus my daily struggle with 2 dyslexic day dreaming boys.... but Kids are so different!

I am by nature a laid back sort of parent, but that would not work with my DC, so I have had to step up

sigh

I let my 12yo year 7 dd get on with it. I might ask her what she's up to, or help her if she's stuck, and sometimes she'll ask me to read something if she's really pleased with it. Other than that, she's on her own and I'm really proud of how motivated and focused she's been this year

@bunbaker Nothing to do with being smug, everything to do with providing a counterpart to someone justifying potentially unhealthy micromanaging by saying that because she wasn't micromanaged she did terribly at school. It does not follow that all young people who are not micromanaged do terribly at school. I think it's very important to make that point, for the sake of the poor benighted kids and for the sake of those parents who for whatever reason can't do the extreme macho SAHM micromanaging thing and are made to feel guilty as an indirect result of others' neuroses.

Caramel makes good points.I have several friends who teach secondary and who have secondary kids. All get soooo frustrated with the kids that don't discipline themselves and sit on X boxes far too much.I have a friend who teaches in the private sector that is aghast at a pupil being allowed to chuck an expensive education and a good brain away because the parents don't think it's their job to support revision, instill a good working ethic and get him off the bloody Xbox.

I have no intention of doing work for my dc but I will support them all the way through their education by showing interest,fostering enjoyment and helping to build a good work ethic.I fail to see how showing no interest and leaving them to scrape though doing very little will be of any benefit.

I was lazy,I didn't work as hard as I should have.I have the crappy A level results and a poly 2:2 to show for it.A degree was free in my day.Today my dc will be paying 9K for their higher education.I want them to get value for their money and also cotton on to the fact that they'll have a mortgage to pay for and student loans to pay back with zero help from us.

Helping my dc to try their best and get in good working methods will only stand them in good stead for uni or anything else they decide to do instead.If I show no interest they will too.

Oh and I have 3 kids who differ greatly.! is a swot of the highest order(I'll probably be nagging him to take breaks from the books) the other other 2 errrr not so much.2 of mine will need a lot more support.

It's not 1 size fits all.It must be lovely if all of your kids naturally work hard and you can subscribe to benign neglect but this approach just isn't possible or helpful for all kids.

Not micromanaging!=showing no interest

My kids don't own an X box. Or a wii. Or a play station. Of whatever else those console things might be called. Seems to me that that bit of parental Lucy might be more effective than all this doing their homework for them that some of you seem to think is the right way to proceed.

We could definitely do with a few fewer guitars in the house.

Basically, this thread is a bit bonkers.

This thread is a bit bonkers!

By 18yrs they are an adult and they either have the work ethic or they haven't. Mine have-but I put in the time earlier. I gave them the tools to sort themselves. If they are working because you make them and you bribe them for exams there is really no point. They need to be in charge and passing exams for their future. You are not by them at university-they are on their own-if they haven't coped without you it is a bit late!

Every child is different and they should be treated as individuals and the parent should know when to offer assistance and when to stand back. However, I do not agree with a totally 'they're on their own now'. If they ask for help and are given the correct level of aid they will know that they can ask again, if they are never offered help, or they think it is not available this is a poor situation. Education does not begin and end in the classroom.

I was in a situation where my parents offered no interest at all in my education and was always envious of my classmates who had someone to ask
who would take some interest.

I think DCs deserve support and encouragement with school work in the same way as any family member deserves support and encouragement with the work they do all day. What is a family for if not to provide support and encouragement?

Sigh, I am finding being a parent of a preteen harder than that of a primary age child.

I am too.

I suppose the down side of it could be that if you spend a lot of time on intellectual and creative stuff as a family, you miss out on doing something else together.