To wish sectarian parades (all kinds) were banned in Scotland

[Meikyo]

Apart from the stirring up of old hatreds based on battles hundreds of years ago, there is the general disruption to the daily lives of the general public when traffic is stopped (often without warning, for up to 30 minutes or more). There is also the not inconsiderable cost to the tax payer of providing policing for these parades and their followers.

I remember those who fought and died in all wars, not just WW1. We have Remembrance Day parades. In November. We also have Black Watch homecoming parades.

All marches and parades conducted in atmospheres of utmost respect and pride for marchers and the communities.

No sign of cider swilling Neanderthals "FTP"ing at the back of these parades.

"People, all people, have a right to march and show their beliefs."

Do they?

From whence is the "right to march" derived?

What about the right not to have people marching down your street with the specific aim of intimidating you and people from your community?

Is that a right?

Tee7

More like don't come any time between May and October.

If only it were confined to July.

Blondie you need to get on to the cities in the north of scotland then to arrange commemorative marches on 1st July because they don't have any other than the remembrance march that anyone can join. No need to be a member of an order or anything. These marches going in at the moment aren't about remembrance, they are about getting as pissed as possible before 10am and banging a drum so loud you could wake the dead.

I find the fact you suggest we aren't respectful of the men who laid down their lives in WW1 because we don't agree with orange order marches disrespectful itself.

Blondie, that's an outrageous remark.

Banning is not a good idea. From a Northern Irish point of view, I would rather the parades commission talked to both communities to achieve some sort of compromise, limiting the number of parades and the route they take. If you ban them you're basically waving a red flag to extremists on both sides, who'll run to the "aid" of their repressed culture. IMO it would be much better to gradually turn them into a non-event that has even less support than the aging Orange Order has now. Also, there's a difference between orange marches and the paramilitary ones you see in more hard-line areas- I don't agree with the OO or what they stand for, but those other boys are a completely different kettle of fish.

Where are you ChipsandPeas cos there was a big walk where i live on Saturday. I actually let my 3 yr old go see it because i needed a babysitter he's still too young for the politics. I don't think banning them is the answer but surely councils could charge them out of existence? bankrupt them like Rangers I really object to the buckie drinking wastes of space that follow follow the walk they cause the real problem. But in general i think the whole thing is an embarrassment to our so called civilised society.

Glad I saw this thread - and got the 'heads up' from redlac. We're in Stirling. I thought the signs about a 'large parade' were for the annual armed forces day / funfair thingy. No - turns out we're about to be hit with a 20,000 Orange march on Saturday and the route will effectively cut off our house for the best part of the day. Bloody Hell.

Why don't the signs say exactly what it is?! Because the council is too ashamed to?

And we are in a 'inter-faith' marriage (ie RC / Protestant by background). Maybe I'll hang a sign on the door as they all march by...

I agree that everyone should have the right to express themselves and banning them causes nothing but resentment and trouble. However, IME, the people that turn out to watch these parades show absolutely no respect whatsoever.

You should not have a 6yr asking you what FTP, up the UVF and fenian bastard means, all of which I have had asked of me and also witnessing the appalling drunken behaviour of these louts!

sorry 6yr old

ban lodge marches? when a catholic can ascend to the throne perhaps... the queen mother must be birling in her grave at the thought!!! was that slow enough for you blondie? just so many "red hand of ulster " tatoos / banners / rangers football strips ,most off the marchers/hanger on lot could not tell you what happened 1 hour ago ! where i live in glasgow at moment it is like a war zone due to those knuckleheads ... one guy shredded with knife , but they , the police "kettle" students for hours , think !!!!

YANBU to the majority of those taking part it's about the bigotry, booze and bluster. Lots of them won't even know anything about WW1.

Those who died at the Somme deserve proper respect not drunken insults being thrown about.

YANBU imagine if a group of people started a march celebrating a victory in a war against Muslims for example. Everyone got drunk at 9 am, held the traffic up for hours whilst shouting anti Muslim slogans?

Have you actually ever seen the followers? as someone else said Rangers tops, staffies, tattoos and Buckfast.

brawhen this link has just appeared on my FB page detailing the route and the bus cancellations etc - there is also a bit about giving feedback to the Council, which I am email them right now! :)

my.stirling.gov.uk/news/view/12413/date:07-2012?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Can you image if me and a group of my mates decided that we would walk through some leafy suburb, average house price c£500,000 at 8am on a Sunday morning banging drums and playing flutes and accompanied by some other mates pissing in hedges and spitting in the naice gardens?

Do you think we'd get a police escort to save us from the howls of the angry residents? Do you think we'd have a cat's chance in hell of getting permission from the council?

Nah, but you can do it in my area because it's tradition, innit?

Suzi - i agree - wtf are the local governments in Scotland & N.I. thinking by allowing groups of people doing to march every year in a way that intimidates others, promotes divisions & costs a fortune to police??

Like i said before; i had no idea that these marches still go on in N.I. - i'd stupidly assumed they'd been stopped as part of the 'peace process'.
Because sectarian marches don't exactly promote peace?
& i didn't realise how divided some parts of Scotland are.

True Christians (Catholic OR Protestant) are supposed to be forgiving & to follow the commands of Jesus - main command being ''love thy neighbour as thyself'' - anyone who does not follow that command is NOT a true Christian IMO.

As for remembering WW1 - that's what Remembrance Day is for - 2 min SILENCE on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month.

Or maybe i will just copy the stupid marchers - one of my ancestors got blown up on a Royal Navy ship in WW1; so on that day i will stand outside my house banging a drum and get sectioned for being crazy

Latara - the big one we had two years ago, the Council didn't have any grounds to refuse the parade licence (and I know that most of the Councillors were embarrassed at the fact that this was going ahead) Our local MP and MSP both spoke out against it.

The Orange Order argue that it is not the marchers, but their "followers" that cause the trouble. They also argue that it is a "fun-filled, carnival atmosphere"

In reality it is as described above. A bunch of knuckle-draggers dressed in cheap polyester blue and orange "uniforms" or sashes and hats, with their pathetic, little chests puffed out with some sort of imagined pride and superiority as they strut down the streets of my city, followed by people who could be easily mistaken for the cast of BBC's The Scheme.

And before Blondie starts her nonsense again, If a group of Northern Irish men and women want to march up and down supposedly commemorating the Battle of the Somme, then they can go and do it in a field somewhere, preferably in Northern Ireland. Me, I'll stick with November.

Sorry for the rant. I am a Scot from the east coast. I live in the 21st century. I'm not interested in any of this shite. And while they have their freedom of expression and their right to march, then I too have the right to live my life without feeling threatened and intimidated by these people.

........and breathe

YANBU. Scotland is very sectarian and the religious stuff is evil bollox.

I was born a Scottish Presbytarian and I have also lived in Northern Ireland.
It's certainly enough to put you off religion for life. People often don't realise how closely the two countries are linked in this destructive way.

It seems to be all about poking people with a stick and then condemning them if they react.

I reject all of that stuff, it's very destructive, and I agree with those who say that this marching should come under the incitement to racial hatred legislation.

So happy I'm out of town this weekend. When I mentioned the signs in town to him he naively said 'Maybe it's the Gillis Hill walk' (Um, nooo DH, no!)

never mind my comment of them dying out Just heard a huge march is due this weekend sigh will be avoiding town

YANBU. I detest the sectarian marches. Really really detest them.

As a child they terrified me. Now they just sicken me. Wave upon wave of drunken buckie-swilling idiots in football tops, erratically pushing poor bewildered babies in football tops. It's sweet FA to do with religion or tradition and everything to do with getting pissed out of your tree and sticking it to the other "side".

I can see that for the organised marchers, the bands etc, it may represent something, but I'd still keep it off the streets. The sight of lurching drunks howling sectarian songs does nothing for scotland, IMO

Stirling is expecting 10,000 marchers and 10,000 hangers on with all the coaches parking at Corbiewood and the Walk cutting off most of the town centre. Was in a shop today and the owner said its bad enough they aren't getting any tourist trade cos of the rain but they know that they won't get any trade on Saturday cos of this walk.

MrsJay I'm evacuating from Stirling and heading to Falkirk!

redlac I just wont be going out Wonder what time it starts DD is working on saturday morning ,

I find it amusing that an Irish Catholic is one of the few people on this thread not out for blood . I guess for my generation of Irish people the peace process was about being a little more accepting of the other side. We don't have the luxury of moving effortlessly from "I don't like X" to "X should be banned" (it weirds me out how easily British people make that transition). Seriously, NI has a parades commission which adjudicates on Orange and other marches, and it seems like a fair system. Maybe Scotland needs something similar? As for the Orange Order being bigotted, start a thread on the Catholic Church or the Pope and you will get responses that make Orangeism look like a haven of fraterity and tolerance (ditto any thread on Christianity actually).

Signs say traffic disruptions from 12 til 3!!!!!