To wish sectarian parades (all kinds) were banned in Scotland

[Meikyo]

Apart from the stirring up of old hatreds based on battles hundreds of years ago, there is the general disruption to the daily lives of the general public when traffic is stopped (often without warning, for up to 30 minutes or more). There is also the not inconsiderable cost to the tax payer of providing policing for these parades and their followers.

I was brought up in NI and England. I knew nothing of marching season before we lived in Belfast and one so-called Glorious Twelfth was enough for me. It's not any sort of route to tolerance and for some reason, I'm made even more depressed by the zealous appreciation of sectarian marches in Scotland. Personally, I'd ban anyone from taking to the streets in the sash their bigoted father wore...

Nope, Dunfermline. We don't encourage the marching at all here.... Yet it still seems acceptable in someone's mind to bring in folks from other areas for a largely unsupported march. Not sure if it's happening this year as there have been so many complaints about it by locals.

Stirling is due to have a large on this Saturday - signs all over the place saying expect delays between 12 and 3pm which means that most people will stay away from the town centre on a day that you cant even get round the main roundabout for cars queuing to get into the thistle centre - MADNESS

I'm Irish Catholic by background and have no problem at all with Orange marches within reason (i.e. they're orderly, inconvenience to the public is kept to a minimum etc etc). The entire Order could do the can can through my hometown in little orange tutus for all I care. And I have a PhD in modern Irish history and am pretty well read on Orangeism, so I know all about their history and beliefs. They have as much right to freedom of speech and assembly as anyone else, provided they operate within the law. One of the largest, most uncontentious Orange marches in Ireland takes place south of the border in Co. Donegal and the Irish president has hosted representatives of the Order at receptions in Dublin to mark the 12th. If we Irish Fenians can suck it up and be tolerant than so can mumsnetters .

But then I actually quite enjoyed the one Orange march I've seen.

I am from an Irish Background, Catholic father and Protestant mother. I was as confused as the protaganist in the song by the Dubliners "The Orange and the Green" cept in reverse :o.

I actually detest all marches, I detest what Orangeism stands for and all bigoted eejits, from both sides. So personally I think ALL sectarian marches shoud be banned.

And somewherewest not all Irish Fenians as you put it-suck it up.

I'm from a protestant background and apparently my grandfather was involved in marches. I didn't really know much about it all as a child, but ever since I lived along a marching route in Glasgow as a teenager I have hated them with a passion. Apart from the bigotry they stand for, they disrupt daily life for ordinary people.

I don't think they should be banned (prohibition never works), but why can't they just march in a bloody circle somewhere - like round & round Hampden? That way they could express their beliefs and not be stirring up hatred and inconveniencing everyone around them, the fuckers.

My (ghastly & racist) neighbour tried to get me to join her on one once. "But why not? You like music! You like walking!" Err...not really getting the point.

you like music and walking sorry that made me a woman who works with my mum blasts orange songs out her windows most days sigh and she says if i was playing pop music people wouldnt 'phone the polis'

I'd be happy to see them banned, but failing that just get them off the public highway. I get fed up with the disruption in my town from April-September. Most sane minded people leave the country for 12th week.

We had a huge one here two years ago, and it caused uproar. Our Council came out and said that they had given permission, only because they had no legal grounds to refuse.

In the end it was a bit of a damp squib, people were bussed in, go to march and then were bussed straight back out again. So what was the point?

The worst bit was the supporters of the march, the hangers on, the apologists and the locals bleating on about their "tradition". Knuckledraggers, to a man and woman.

They were so stupid that anyone who expressed any sort of anti-March opinion, was immediately branded a paedophile-lover - Yes really. In their little brains, if you didn't support them, then you were a - now let me see if I can remember.

A child rapist
A tattie muncher
A fenian bastard/bitch

To name but a few.

And Suzikettles your picture is uncannily accurate. The "followers" - Rangers tops, bottles and staffies - and that was just the women!!!

Was not a good time for a town that was trying to be a cultured. sophisticated city

I Hate them. Where I live, they start in early June marching about the streets before 8am banging the Lambeg drums and fluting away. There's hardly a Saturday goes by, in the summer, where they aren't out in force.

I find it hard to agree with calls fr banning because everyone as a right to assemble etc. as long as they operate within the law, but most of the folk who march, here, have no real idea what they're actually marching about. it's all about Rangers and catholic hating. The worst thing is all the little kids who are taken along by their parents and march about with their wee drum major batons all summer singing offensive songs without any kind of understanding.

I, too, have neighbours who blare out flute band music about being up to your knees all summer long. Charming.

YANBU. Although I agree with the posters who say that if you banned them, it would make things worse as the Orange Order would say they were repressed victims etc. They have been reduced dramatically now, although one a year would be enough.

I used to live in the East End of Glasgow and hated them with a passion. It's actually the people that follow them who are the worst...pissed out of their heads at 9.30 in the morning, abusive to all other pedestrians, really horrible horrible people, creating an agressive atmosphere for everyone else, the worst ambassadors for this city.

That's it, people march because their fathers marched, but they have no idea why. If I'm honest I don't know why they march, all I know is it is divisive and usually followed by trouble here.

I never knew that they have sectarian marches in Scotland before i joined Mumsnet, i'd only heard of the marches in Northern Ireland.

I'm from deepest SW England; we have folk festivals; beer & cider festivals; steam fairs; air shows; carnivals & fetes; beach polo; New Forest Show; firework shows @ the slightest excuse!; Chinese New Year; New Year; food festivals; Halloween; Thai festival; fairs; music festivals; concerts in parks; Switching on Christmas Lights celebrations; etc etc etc...
Some events are free & some are quite expensive; but all provide an equal opportunity for all locals, tourists & visiting Romanies / Irish Travellers of any religion & all social classes posh & poor to mix & get completely wrecked should they so wish & for lads to get in fights for no reason at all except because they love fighting

The only event down here that could be called 'sectarian' is Bonfire Night; but i've never once heard any anti-Catholic sentiments on Nov 5th; local Catholics all celebrate too & i haven't seen a 'Guy' on any bonfire for a long time. To be honest i think most people don't even know (or believe) the story of Guy Fawkes.

Basically i think the romance of the story lies in the fact that one man tried to take on the might of Parliament but was caught & suffered a gruesome death - i have only ever heard people say things like, 'well, all Christians here were originally Catholic'; & 'poor Guy Fawkes, horrible what they did to people in those days'.
I haven't seen a Guy on a local publicly organised bonfire for a long time - i think that the reason for Bonfire Night is played down here because people can see it's unfair & just want an excuse for fireworks & bonfires.

So I feel sorry for all the Scots & Irish people who have to put up with those marches - to me they are no different & no less provocative & discriminatory than if the EDL were allowed to march down a road inhabited by mainly Muslims. The marches IMO should be banned & replaced by non-sectarian events on different dates.
If you all get fed up with marches then you're welcome to come down here & get pissed on 20 different types of cider :)

I remember sitting on a bus in traffic one afternoon wondering what the hold up was and far in the distance I caught a glimpse of orange and heard music. Oh the cursing in my head...

... until we got closer and I realised it was a Sikh religious festival - which was lovely, and happy and celebratory and they were handing out sweets to the crowds. The contrast was stark.

I agree with once a year (but still in a car park somewhere out of everyone's way )

I was at worm in Edinburgh and we were told that over one weekend they'd be an orange march and the pride march coming down the royal mile.

I was working with a very young member of Saturday staff, when an open topped bus drapped with a rainbow flag and pumping out dance music, with loads of blokes cheering waving and generally having a great time on the top deck rolled past.

She then asked (in all seriousness) 'which march is this?'

The parades will never be banned because of the history and sensitivity that surrounds them but one good idea I heard from some Northern Irish people who were fed up of sectarian parades was to make the organizations running the parades pay for the security costs.

That would see the number of marches dwindling pretty quick and still retains the right to freedom of speech because happy, peaceful parades that don't cause disorder won't incur large costs.

How else would they celebrate my birthday on 12th July?
I have to agree I hate all the sectarianism that goes hand in hand with the marches.

To whoever was complaining about the parades yesterday.... maybe you should find out the reason for the parade on 1st July?

The British Army suffered nearly half a million casualties during the Battle of the Somme, with 60,000 of these on the first day.

I have no problem with anyone who wants to walk/march in rememberance of those brave men who fought for us in WW1.

The removal of state funding from church schools would have a bigger impact on the reduction of sectarianism in Scotland, than any number of march bans.

How so chrisdriver ? IMHO sectarianism starts in the home

Blondie - all I know about the parades is that, as a Scottish person from a protestant background I feel intimidated by them. I want to live in peace with my Catholic, Muslim, Sikh, Jewish, Atheist, Church of Scotland, Anglican, Baptist etc etc etc neighbours and enjoy the amenities of my neighbourhood without people being bussed in from god knows where to march up and down past my house on a Sunday.

There may be reasons for marches on particular days. These may be observed and honoured by local people in Northern Ireland who march in their own neighbourhoods. I can tell you right now that the Orange Lodge and associated organisations round here don't lift a finger to raise awareness of the history and meaning behind their various parades. The first we know of it is the banging of the drums.

If there were any thoughts of commemorating the sacrifice of those who died at the Somme amongst the marchers and the drunks who followed them down Argyle Street on Sunday then they were well hidden. A sorrier lot I've rarely seen.

Like others, I am not a natural fan of banning anything. However, I do like the image of them marching round and round hampden park!

Grew up in the west and it was everywhere. Now live in central and Hess what? Still everywhere. My part of town has pro-IRA gaffiti (fuck the queen amongst others) as well as unionist stuff (fuck the pope). Doesn't seem to matter who gets fucked as long as someone does. This is being written by kids too young to know anything of the troubles and who certainly are unlikely to be practicing Catholics or Protestants. As mentioned earlier, this is largely about football but In my opinion, mainly about poverty. There has been an upsurge here in the last few years - people are poorer, they feel angry and disenfranchised and want to belong to something. Sadly, that belonging means marching in towns where they aren't wanted making a damned nuisance of themselves.

I have a number of family members who are orange types. Strangely though they are very anti-English, anti-the queen and anti-union jack. How on earth does that work?

Oh, and compo I love the idea of an Orange march and Pride march being confused. I know which one I would rather join

suzi - a little shocked at your disregard for those who fought and died in WWI, perhaps you should remember who fought to allow you to live in peace with all your mates and neighbours to enjoy local amenities.

Straw. Man.