To approve of a German courts decision re circumcision

[SlipperyNipple]

Apologies if this has already been covered.

I am Jewish by descent but an an agnostic. I think the time has come to say that being religious is not an excuse to carry out mutilation of small boys.

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish?newsfeed=true

Obviously Female circumcision is already illegal but the same protection should be given to boys.

It's the language used that makes me wince people - 'mutilation' and 'barbaric' etc. Makes me clench with guilt.

"The court weighed up three articles from the basic law: the rights of parents, the freedom of religious practice and the right of the child to physical integrity, before coming to the conclusion that the procedure was not in the interests of the child."

Blimey, wish our courts worked this well.

Now you've missed my point. Of course I know it is fine for medical reasons but nonetheless there are many people on this thread, yourself included who would now describe my child as 'mutilated' because he is circumcised. That is what is so utterly offensive. My DS is perfect btw, absolutely gorgeous and I do not consider him to be 'mutilated' because of a procedure that was carried out on him.

Again, I agree with Grapes

I am Jewish. I will contInue to circumcise my boys, in acccordance with the laws of my religion. That any country, especially Germany,would attempt to interfere with my religion is an abomination.
46 family members gone to the Shoah

I tell you what would have been 'barbaric' would to have let my son continue screaming in pain every time he went to the toilet after yet another foreskin infection. So no, not mutilated, cured in his case.

Just you and me against the world valium

Quite grapes

sorry i offended you grapes, there is some emotive language on this thread, but if you get your ear pierced your mutilated. strong word for it but you are.

Mutilated is a very emotive word.

However I would argue that circumcision/amputation do mutilate, by definition.

cynner, if you so keen why dont you hack bits off your own body, thats a discision you can take. let your boys make up their own minds when they are old enough.

I am not sure how you can disagree with me rainydays
You can say 'I dont have any experience of that happening' but I can assure you it does.

Most of the Turkish boys I knew went back to Cyprus or Turkey for theirs because it was more traditional.

Lots of the families I work with travel to and from Pakistand regularly. They dont think the hygiene is worse there. What a weird thing to say. They dont do in a field. They do have hosptials you know.

A lot of my families, whilst valuing the NHS, chose to go abroad because if they want something eg. an MRI scan, they can just pay for one. They dont have to be referred or go on a waiting list.

Its common to go back home after a baby is born, to show them to the family.

There are plenty of good reasons for circumcision. I know a good ten men who were circumcised as adults and it was painfully traumatic for them. They all love talking about it because it was down to them having big willys. There is the issue of whether to have the sons cut as they will probably have the same problems. Better to do it young.
It is over the top to demonize a mother for having a child circumcised. A boy anyway. Female circumcision is a whole different kettle of fish.

So my child is mutilated? Thanks. He is not though, he has had an operation.

ah the good old "how dare you interfere with my religion!"

If MY religion tells me that all babies have to get their ears cut off, should I be able to demand it?

they got circumcised down to having big willies?

what a croc! big penis-big foreskin if the foreskin is too tight it may be a problem, but i doubt it would have anything to do with penis size.

By definition then amputees are also mutilated - I'm sure you sayng that will go down a treat with those who have lost limbs in wars or accidents. It is a technical term yes but nowadays it is used in a different way and you know it. You are being pedantic to make a point. The point it makes is that you are an insensitive arse.

Beg pardon? My boys are Jewish, this is a requirement of Jewish law. They will certainly circumcise their boychildren.

Well said Hazle. For medical reasons of course the operation is fine. To put a baby through surgery for religious reasons is very selfish and narrow minded.

the worshipers of baal would sacrifice their children, but hey, if thats the religious law it must be ok!

sorry again grapes, i dont think your child was mutilated, he was indeed cured, it was the right thing to do, you had good reason.

To equate the murder of small children with the act of circumcision is absurd and immflamatory. I am merely stating fact, as a Jewish mother, I will always circumcise my baby boys.

i'm equating the argument of 'but it's my religion' and it's a bollox argument.

So how many Jewish people have tattoos? How many keep Kosher? How many Muslims dont pray 5 times a day? How many break various laws because they are not particularly observant?
This is their choice of course.
So why is the circumcision so important when other ancient laws are not?

There is no need to circumcise boys.
So why do it?
What is the worst thing that can happen if you dont?

And how do we KNOW that its more painful for grown men to have it done than for babies to have it done?
Because men will tell us how painful it is but a baby cannot?
And what about the boys who have it done when they are 4? Where do they stand in the pain scale?

Men dont get circumcised because they have big willies.

One of my boys had a slightly tight foreskin when he was born. He may have had to go on to have a circumcision. It righted itself in a few weeks and didnt cause him any problems.

Why would I have an operation on my child that he didnt need?