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So David Cameron (we are in it together) really wants to fuck up our children then!

660 replies

belleMarie · 23/06/2012 23:14

How can anyone be taken in by this muppet? whilst him, Sam (and her £1000 pound frocks) and kiddies eat good, sleep good, shit good - we're basically screwed?

His hate for the poor/have-not is staggering and apart from a a couple of grunts here and there, this man is unstoppable.

Cameron to axe housing benefits for feckless under 25s as he declares war on welfare culture
Prime Minister gives exclusive interview to the MAIL ON SUNDAY
Reveals housing benefit will be scrapped for under 25s, who'll be forced to live with their parents
Dole money will be stopped for those who refuse to find work
Mr Cameron shares his views on Euro2012, Jimmy Carr, and what really happened when he left his daughter in the pub

Radical new welfare cuts targeting feckless couples who have children and expect to live on state handouts will be proposed by David Cameron tomorrow.
His bold reforms could also lead to 380,000 people under 25 being stripped of housing benefits and forced to join the growing number of young adults who still live with their parents.
In a keynote speech likely to inflame tensions with his deputy Nick Clegg, the Prime Minister will call for a debate on the welfare state, focusing on reforms to ?working-age benefits?.

Among the ideas being considered by Mr Cameron are:
Scrapping most of the £1.8 billion in housing benefits paid to 380,000 under-25s, worth an average £90 a week, forcing them to support themselves or live with their parents.
Stopping the £70-a-week dole money for the unemployed who refuse to try hard to find work or produce a CV.
Forcing a hardcore of workshy claimants to do community work after two years on the dole ? or lose all their benefits.
Well-placed sources say Ministers are also taking a fresh look at plans to limit child benefit to a couple?s first three children, although Mr Cameron is not expected to address this issue directly tomorrow.
Speaking exclusively to The Mail on Sunday, Mr Cameron said: ?We are sending out strange signals on working, housing and fa8milies.?

He argued that some young people lived with their parents, worked hard, planned ahead and got nothing from the State, while others left home, made little effort to seek work and got a home paid for by the benefits system.

?A couple will say, ?We are engaged, we are both living with our parents, we are trying to save before we get married and have children and be good parents. But how does it make us feel, Mr Cameron, when we see someone who goes ahead, has the child, gets the council home, gets the help that isn?t available to us???
?One is trapped in a welfare system that discourages them from working, the other is doing the right thing and getting no help.?
Asked if he would take action against large families who were paid large sums in benefits, he replied:
?This is a difficult area but it is right to pose questions about it. At the moment the system encourages people not to work and have children, but we should help people to work AND have children.?
His plan to axe housing benefit for the under-25s will have exemptions for special cases, such as domestic violence, but he said: ?We are spending nearly £2 billion on housing benefit for under-25s ? a fortune. We need a bigger debate about welfare and what we expect of people. The system currently sends the signal you are better off not working, or working less.?
He also favours new curbs on the Jobseeker?s Allowance, demanding the unemployed do more to find work. He said: ?We aren?t even asking them, ?Have you got a CV ready to go?? ? A small minority of hardcore workshy, an estimated 5,000 to 10,000, could be forced to take part in community work if they fail or refuse to find work or training after two years.
The Prime Minister wants to show he is committed to radical policies, but his speech could exacerbate strains with Coalition partner Mr Clegg, whose Lib Dems oppose drastic welfare cuts.
It follows the row over plans to revive O-levels and will fuel rumours the Coalition could end long before the 2015 Election. ?As leader of a political party as well as running a Coalition it?s right sometimes to make a more broad-ranging speech,? said Mr Cameron.
A Government official said: ?Decent folk are fed up with the increasing abuse of the welfare system. Responsible people who work damned hard, often on low incomes, to support themselves, are sick and tired of seeing others do nothing and live off the state.
?Labour threw ever greater sums of money at the problem and made it worse. If we want to encourage responsibility we have be bold enough to tackle these issues. We suspect some of those who refuse point-blank to seek work are working on the black market and claiming fraudulently.?
But a Labour source said: ?It is easy for rich Tories with big houses to have grown-up children at home while they find their feet. It?s different if you live in a tiny council flat and your daughter is a single mum.? Ministers said curbs on housing benefit for the under-25s, had helped slash the welfare bill in Germany and Holland

OP posts:
Catkinsthecatinthehat · 25/06/2012 01:10

HB was briefly but hugely important to me at 24. I'd always worked, but lost my job and had to claim for my room in a shared house in London. Four months later I got another post and 14 years later have never had to resort to benefits again. It was a vital stopgap - as it is for most people. And I couldn't have done without it.

Had I been forced to move in with my parents I'd have been in a deprived part of rural South Wales with far far fewer jobs and opportunities.

Yes according to the papers there are apparently feckless slags, aged 20, with six children by seven different fathers living in four storey Notting Hill mansions at £2k per week. But for most people benefits are something you claim between jobs. And increasingly HB is something you have to claim while you are working hard in a full-time job as private sector rents are out of control.

Socknickingpixie · 25/06/2012 04:47

xdivax I don't belive it and there I was thinking you were nice and decent this country is going to the dogs the apsolute dogs all us decent folk just trying to get on with things and YOU come along and commit the ultimate sin it's gone to pot all of you running around being under 25 it's brazen it is have you no shame Grin

RichPetunia · 25/06/2012 06:05

I agree with Cameron. Housing is handed out to young couples who have children who do not work. Young people who do work, save and contribute to society haven't a hope of getting a house. If young parents are not handed a house, it may make them think twice about having children. They need to be considered in exactly the same way as their responsible counterparts and not handed council homes. I have personal experience of living next to feckless teens and it has not been pleasant. Our society really has rewarded those who take no responsibility for their own actions and it is time for it to stop. IRO community work for those on benefit and stopping benefits for those who do not try to get work - quite right. I work in an environment where day after day I see people who do not want to work, preferring to claim benefits. The only time they show a modecum of incentive is if their benefit is stopped and training is the only option. THEN they'll do it. Bravo to the Camerons for taken a brave step.

FrothyOM · 25/06/2012 07:01

Richpetunia, what about the housing benefit claimants that are...

  <strong>WORKING</strong>
5dcsinneedofacleaner · 25/06/2012 07:45

What about under 25s who have no parents?. I never claimed housing benefit but this was nothing but luck (so many people i knew lost jobs etc - dh and i were just the lucky ones). If i had needed to claim help for rent but couldnt because of my age what was i supposed to do with my family dead?!. Will they be bringing back workhouses etc for those that have a less than perfect family life?

Socknickingpixie · 25/06/2012 07:58

I would be very impressed to know where they are hiding this huge glut of social housing the ones that get handed out at the drop of a hat or perhaps there not hiding them because they don't exist.

rich you have compleatly missed the point they are talking all under 25's not just the unemployed ones and as has been repeated time and time again but people like you don't appear to be able to get your head round it there are more housing benefit claiments who work than ones who don't. employed people account for about 90% of new claiments

xDivAx · 25/06/2012 08:01

socknickingpixie I would apologise for being so brazen about my under 25-ness. But maybe you heard the latest new? I'm feckless? So I'm not going to Wink

Socknickingpixie · 25/06/2012 08:10

Childish giggling comencing about now

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 25/06/2012 08:15

As long as HB isn't cut for under 25s who don't have parents, I don't have a problem with any of these proposals. I think they are long overdue.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 25/06/2012 08:22

Catkins are you me Wink. Very similar situation. After my professional qualifications I had some time before I found a permanent role. I was working in a pub to pay the rent but the landlady was a drinker and when drunk used to swear and throw things so I left. I claimed HB for a couple of months then I got a permanant role. I've never needed benefits since i.e. for the last 20 years.

Like you my family live in S Wales so I wonder how long it would have taken me to find a job there if I had been forced to move back.

cory · 25/06/2012 08:29

This whole idea of getting on your bike to find a job, however low paid, is going to look slightly trickier if you have to live with your parents until 25. Or does "get on your bike" only apply to people sure of landing a well paid job? Or does Cameron have some kind of trick up his sleeve to force parents to move around with their job hunting offspring?

Also feel sorry for places like Centrepoint who work so hard at picking young people up from the streets and making them employable after they've been kicked out by their parents. That's going to seem a bit pointless if they then have no chance of getting somewhere to live- which of course equals no chance of getting a job. Or are parents who are prepared to put a 13yo on the streets suddenly going to see the light when the same child is 21?

What about youngsters who have fled abuse in the home: technically they have parents- but are they going to be sent back for more?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 25/06/2012 08:30

Outraged - The problem I see is that it makes it very difficult for young people to move to look for jobs especially if they come from a low income family. If you are in a deprived area there may not be many jobs and you may not have the means to save up a float to cover your rent when you move to an area with more jobs.

I remember Norman Tebbitt and his get on your bike and look for work ethos (which I have some sympathy for) but if you have no savings at all its really difficult to see how you can move to an new area to find work without a bit of a safety net to help you.

I do have a real problem with overdependence on benefits but I think that this proposal could harm young people who are trying to make their way in the world instead of tackling the dependency culture that may exist in some places.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 25/06/2012 08:31

cory x post

noddyholder · 25/06/2012 09:15

It seems that all his reforms are aimed at one section of society only. Meanwhile those at the top with a few tax loophole closures could really boost the coffers but that simply won,t happen while this lot are in. Bastards

xDivAx · 25/06/2012 09:15

Love the link quoteunquote tis so very true!

xDivAx · 25/06/2012 09:17

Hear hear noddy

FrothyOM · 25/06/2012 09:50

I agree Noddy, THE NEWS ABOUT TORY DONORS AVOIDING TAX HAS BEEN BURIED BY THIS PROPOSAL, hasn't it ? Smile

Phacelia · 25/06/2012 09:56

Hear, hear Noddy. Good thing lots of us here haven't forgotten about TORY DONORS AVOIDING TAX isn't it?

noddyholder · 25/06/2012 10:09

Also calling it a 'debate' is so wolf in sheeps clothing its untrue. I am really hoping clegg and co can keep objecting and stalling these ludicrous reforms until the next election comes round and we are shot of this lot. It is the only hope Sad

NowThenWreck · 25/06/2012 10:39

BBC Breakfast this morning, covered this briefly, the news announcer saying
"Cameron to cut HB for the under 25's; he says these benefits are encouraging a culture of not working..."

(Even though, Dave, most people on HB DO WORK.)

Followed by a run down of the soaring cost to the country of money spent on Housing benefit.

End of segment.

Brilliant BBC. It's that simple, is it?

What about the soaring cost of rent, underpinned by the total lack of fair rent legislation, and the fact that wages have barely risen in years?

The soaring cost of energy bills, food, and most of all transport, which means that more and more people are dependent on some kind of benefit just to get by.

Add to that the dismantling of social housing, and the banks holding interest rates so low for years that buy to let cowboys could get huge mortgages(and charge huge rents)...

I want my extortionate fucking licence fee back. Ta

FrothyOM · 25/06/2012 11:04

I saw that too. I am really pissed off with the BBC.

cabbagesoup · 25/06/2012 11:12

I'm afraid I agree with the policys if they ever happen!! the one that get's right up my nose isn't the under 25's as mentioned that's a tricky one, but worth looking at - is the families who earn 60K + and still get housing - again I'm not bothered by the fact they are in housing but they should be paying full market rental.

NowThenWreck · 25/06/2012 11:15

I think you are confusing this issue with council housing cabbagesoup.

Housing benefit is financial help, usually a percentage of your rent, based on income, and often paid directly to your landlord.

Council housing is the diminishing pool of properties that the council still rents out for rents that people can actually cover on a full time wage.

2 different things, you see?

FrothyOM · 25/06/2012 11:19

Yeah, given this countries amazing record on social mobility, there must be loads of rich people in social housing. Hmm

This 'rich folks living in council houses' thing couldn't possibly be propoganda to gain support for policies which involve shitting all over tenants rights.

Boggler · 25/06/2012 11:21

I think the proposal for no housing benefit for under 25's is totally unworkable. Many people of this age are in committed relationships and have children to support, if they are not fortunate enough to have jobs or should be made redundant etc what's supposed to happen to the family? Is david Cameron advocating a return to the workhouse because unless they have family who can house them - and many won't, where and how are they supposed to put a roof over their children's head? I thought we lived in a caring society but seems everyone is happy to kick those at the bottom whilst the Gary Barlows of the world evade paying the taxes that could help the country out of the mess we are in!

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