To not "get" all the fuss about tax avoidance?

[Peppin]

There is a difference between tax avoidance an tax evasion. Tax evasion is unlawful, tax avoidance is working within the law to minimise tax liability.

I should caveat this post with the fact that I am employed and all my income is taxed through PAYE. If I had more sources of income and more of it, I would not object to paying tax on all of it (by way of example, I never seek to reduce payments by paying cash to plumbers etc.), but equally, I would not want to pay more tax than I had to in order to remain on the right side of the law.

It seems to me that for wealthy individuals, paying an accountant to advise on minimising your tax liability is perfectly reasonable. If the government doesn't like the net effect of this, then it is the job of parliament to pass legislation that closes the loopholes that permit the "avoidance". So why is David Cameron bleating on about tax avoidance as though it were some sort of criminal offence?

I didn't do anything illegal. As someone above mentioned, what I did was a recognised and acceptable arrangement.

I really do not care how pissed off you may or may not be.

Latara, it's not a loop hole! Go find out for yourself!

Damsel - i said all i needed to say thanks.

Well I am pissed off.

I am pissed off because I don't really want to pay for you and your kids because you managed to think of a sneaky little way not to.

Most freelancers do the same thing Damsel. If you are freelance you are not getting the employee benefits of an employed person so you are perfectly entitled to act as a business being hired by a firm....because effectively that is what you are. This is not illegal guys. Just common sense.

My DP pays more than enough tax for me and mine to appreciate the public services that we do. I do not see it as something I am getting for nothing from you, but rather something I am entitled to because of his contribution.

Damsel, if you were dependent on one employer and worked from their workplace, you were acting as an employee and involved in a tax dodge that also allowed your employer to avoid employer's NI and any of the legal obligations of an employer.

I don't think this was morally wrong from your point of view as there was a time when in some industries this was the only way to find work.

However I don't think that is an acceptable way of working. If people don't want to have employee rights/want to pay less tax and have less benefits, we should all vote for it democratically.

(Of course, if you were a genuine freelancer, you were perfectly entitled to organise your tax accordingly and would be mad not to).

I know mops, and thanks for clarifying that. I also contributed to NI myself.

Sure, you're entitled Damsel. Because as you keep telling us, you've done nothing illegal.

It has nothing to do with your husband contributing. That's not the way the UK works. You don't get stuff like the NHS and state schools based on how much you've contributed. Everyone gets them equally.

And you have made yourself a little bit richer and all the services a little bit poorer.

I've paid more to the tax man and to NI than the professional dolies of this country have so get off your high horse. I've broken no laws.

So you keep telling us.

I don't care if you go out and pay £5 billion of tax every year forever and ever.

Dodging your taxes is wrong, and I think you know that or you wouldn't be getting so irate.

And I wondered how long it'd be before you rolled out "dole scum".

You managed to come up with a new and quaint little title for them though.

Congrats.

Bit harsh all this. Working a freelancer is much less secure than being employed. The law reflects this.

If you want to get angry there are some real big "evaders" out there. Step forward "Sir" Phillip Green. I know he must be struggling to make ends meet with his business empire but a quick look on Wikipedia or google him +Tax and you will see that *Damsel is not really in the same sport, never mind the same league

People who use the same system as Damsel and I:
Jeremy Paxman
the Chief Exec of the CSA
Jim Naughtie
Gordon Brown
Tony Blair
Chris Evans

People who use offshore tricks
David Cameron's dad
most high city earners - that scheme was only available to those paying the fees so you had to shelter around £200k inside it

And to those who wonder how Jimmy Carr gets his money.
I saw Bill Bailey at the BIC. It was sold out. 2500 people paying £35 a ticket - even after costs he cleared around £50,000 that night - and it was one date in a hundred gig tour.

I couldn't care less if it's someone dodging £10 or £1 million.

The principle is the same.

Yellowraincoat, I've watched you on other threads, you are too quick to jump to judgement. Calm down and take something in for a change instead of having one setting, which is output!

It's really none of your business to tell me how to post. Don't try to turn stuff on me because you know that you're in the wrong. It makes you look ridiculous.

Government and individuals involved alike should be embarrassed at the rich paying 1% tax - this is not socially responsible

I'm not wrong. Ask the tax man.

I wouldn't mind so much if it was Bill Bailey. Because he's actually funny. And isn't a massive hypocrite.

Gosh, this is all turning rather personal. Yellowraincoat do you really need to make a personal attack on Damsel? How many people do you know who claim benefits they aren't entitled to, or are self-employed and pay themselves through a limited company to avoid income tax rates? People who do either of those things are also "morally wrong" and yet everyone seems to think those activities are just par for the course.

I am sorry to say that I agree with what someone said earlier in the thread: people's outrage about high earners using legitimate tax planning seems to stem from jealousy and jealousy alone.

Like I've said, I'm sure it is legally fine. Whatever, a lot of things are legally ok that aren't morally acceptable.

I don't really know why that's such a hard concept to grasp.

Damsel if you were working for one company, at the same place, doing the same type of work you should have been classed as an employee - not a contractor.

She made personal comments as well, Peppin, but I notice you don't pick her up on it.

It has fuck all to do with earning high wages - I used to earn a lot, I still paid my taxes and I still thought people who didn't were idiots.

Hopefully they will be getting onto this particular scheme now...but there will be others.
It's shameful that people who have done so well are so unwilling to pay back. I happen to think that a certain proportion of footballers wages ought to be put into some sort of scheme for their local communities. Again, put a little back guys! Why don't you want to do this?