To not "get" all the fuss about tax avoidance?

[Peppin]

There is a difference between tax avoidance an tax evasion. Tax evasion is unlawful, tax avoidance is working within the law to minimise tax liability.

I should caveat this post with the fact that I am employed and all my income is taxed through PAYE. If I had more sources of income and more of it, I would not object to paying tax on all of it (by way of example, I never seek to reduce payments by paying cash to plumbers etc.), but equally, I would not want to pay more tax than I had to in order to remain on the right side of the law.

It seems to me that for wealthy individuals, paying an accountant to advise on minimising your tax liability is perfectly reasonable. If the government doesn't like the net effect of this, then it is the job of parliament to pass legislation that closes the loopholes that permit the "avoidance". So why is David Cameron bleating on about tax avoidance as though it were some sort of criminal offence?

I find it impossible to believe that tax schemes are worthwhile for anyone in the 40% tax bracket. 50% maybe. But still a minority.

Well, Tony Blair only paid $350 000 in tax last year, so Jimmy Car is not the only one who is avoiding tax.

Besides, the law is one thing and social morals are another. Jimmy Car has not broken any tax laws. Neither has Mr Blair apparently.

I can't wait to find out about Cameron's taxes, I be you they avoid taxes, just like Ken Livingston's taxes do!!!!

be=bet

Well Dh is a solicitor and he does private client work, one area is tax planning. Most of his clients are not rich millionaires - so yes, even at 40% it can be financially worthwhile to some people. He deals with this stuff daily - so it is most definitely not just a tiny minority of people involved in tax planning at all.

And yes - those names are not the only ones. TBH I bet most of the politicians are involved in some form of tax planning.

I would suggest that most people who are in a position to pay less tax would grab it with both hands! I genuinely don't believe that many of the people who are on this forum would turn down the option to have more money in their pocket. I run a Ltd co, employ staff & pay their NI. In doing this I pay a lower tax but the NI takes it back up to an almost equal amount had I been in a Partnership say, paying 40% tax.

I've always paid my tax but have never claimed any benefit of any kind (lucky me, some would say) but I pay it without saying 'hang on, I'm paying for others' I don't ask for refunds.

The tax system in this country is flawed, but people like Jimmy Carr, Gary Barlow and any number of thousands are doing nothing wrong or illegal. I'd be more het up about the Vodafone & Barclays tax issues.

I also feel a bit pissed off about being called some sort of tax dodger by people on here because I have a Ltd Co, which I work bloody hard to keep going.

I strongly believe some of these posts come from jealousy. So what if he bought an £8million house with cash. Good luck to him for having the wit to think clever things that make people want to go and see him and buy his DVDs (not me, I hasten to add). You're all acting as if he's a peadophile & not an alternative comedian!

As I've said, I have no problem with tax planning, I think in this instance it was excessive. I am fully aware that this scheme is probably legal and but I am making a moral judgement in instance. I'm not sure where I would draw the line.

But it is grossly unfair that JC probably pays similar / less tax than DH and I combined. That is not jealousy talking but a wronged sense of fairness.

only 350,000 that's more than most people will contribute in 10/15 years.

£8.5m for Jimmy Carr's house. Paid in cash. Should have paid £340k in stamp duty on it, but he didn't. Because he bought it through a limited company to avoid paying.

This scam is no longer possible thankfully.

Bumbley, that was on something like £11 million that he made in the year. So yes, far more than most people contribute not not near enough to the luxury tax bracket he is in.

bumbleymummy - it is yes, BUT I think the point was that TB probably earns far more than that and if he was paying ALL the tax he is supposed to then it would be even higher. Chances are that he too has tax planning schemes in place to reduce how much he has to pay.

Mrs Terry Pratchet....I agree with you. Just play the ruddy stuff and
stop all the secrecy

I think the tax brackets are unfair anyway so I'm not surprised people try to avoid paying some. If it was more fair people would be less likely to try to avoid it.

I hate Jimmy Carr's sense of 'humour' so won't comment on him.

But everyone should pay the tax they are supposed to pay - evasion / avoidance / whatever - it's unfair when those who can't afford clever accountants or solicitors to help them 'avoid' paying their share of tax can spend the resulting spare ££££££s while the rest of us are working equally hard, paying our taxes (taken out before we receive our wages) & struggling to pay the bills.

PS: I don't resent paying the taxes i've paid - I've had to use the NHS a lot recently. I have never resented paying towards benefits - i sadly now have to work part time due to serious illness, & have had to apply for DLA myself :(

What makes me mad about all the rich 'tax avoiders' is that they seem to forget that they have been lucky to have the advantage of 1 or more of the following: a) good academic intelligence; b) good business acumen; c) a decent education (eg. a 'good' comprehensive, grammar or public school); d) come from a background (of any social class) where education or the development of business acumen was encouraged; e) had rich parents.

Many people don't have even one of those qualities or opportunities that will help them do well in life - so they have to settle for whatever job / career they can get & cope with - including minimum wage jobs. They usually pay their taxes as they should - of course everyone moans, but they pay them.
Unless they lose that job, become a single parent (often NOT by choice) or get disabled (or all 3) & need benefits.

If you AVOID paying the tax that you SHOULD pay due to high earnings - then kindly send your children to fee paying schools & don't use the NHS. You don't deserve to use the NHS, sorry.
And don't moan about people who DON'T earn high wages - less taxes paid = less money to spend on schools = crap education that only the very academically able can overcome.

I think the thing people object to is the lengths very wealthy people go to to "get around" the law. Obviously there are so many complicated rules surrounding tax & by exploiting certain areas they are able to pay a fraction of what they ought to. This may be "legal" but it is stretching the word legal. It cannot be right for someone earning 3.3 million a yr to pay only £3000 in Tax!

I cannot for the life of me understand why extremely wealthy people are so unwilling to pay back into the country that has afforded them an extremely good living. Try your act out in France Jimmy Carr....I think you'll find it doesn't go down quite as well.

I use to work freelance and quickly realised that I could pay a lot less tax by registering myself as a business and contracting myself out meant I paid less tax than if I was paid a wage by the company I was freelancing for. So that's what I did. I didn't earn mega bucks. I just used common sense so that I could take home more of the fruits of my labour than I gave away. It made business sense.

Exactly mopweaver they know they are doing it to avoid tax they don't think they should pay it because they earn so much they think the have worked hard to earn so much so want to keep it, only very rich people can do this ,

Agree with Mopswerver.

I hope my post actually made sense - can i say that i am NOT jealous of rich people & never have been - i just would like them to pay the taxes that they are supposed to pay; i always did so why can't they??

Ok Damsel - so you used a loophole in the law to avoid paying the tax you should originally have paid.
I hope you have used 'the fruits of your labour' for private health care then??
And school fees??
And won't be applying for benefits if you find yourself out of work or disabled??

I am out of work. I don't want to work. I don't claim benefits my children went to state schools. I've never lived in a council property. And yes, I do use the NHS. I've not broken any laws.

Plus people who can afford tax but 'avoid' paying their proper dues should NOT be allowed to vote, influence government policy or express opinions on how taxpayers' money is spent.

If you have to receive benefits then you don't have a choice re: paying tax or not - so people in receipt of benefits should retain voting rights etc.

Oh yes, & if you are a high earning tax avoider then kindly leave your undeserved state pension & winter fuel allowance uncollected.

Damsel it really isn't the same thing. You are doing what countless other self employed people do. It is a recognised and completely acceptable arrangement. The sorts of schemes the people in the news are using are stretching the letter of the law to the limit. Pretending the money they are using is a loan? I'm sorry! It isn't! and I am not surprised it sticks in the craw of people being squeezed for every penny right now to hear that these very wealthy people are employing such greedy money grabbing methods so that they do not have to pay "a penny more than they have to" to a country that has provided them with a very good living.

On the other hand, people are outraged if they hear that someone has had a penny in benefit that they are not entitled to. Benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to these guys!

My view is, until the politicians stop doing it they cannot expect "celebrities" or anyone else not to do it.

The thing that really shocks me about all of this is that I never thought Jimmy Carr was that successful.

£3 million a year? £8 million cash for a house?

I thought he just did a bit of stand up and a the occasional quiz show.

So what if you haven't broken any laws, Damsel?

It is morally wrong to avoid tax and then use services.

People like you piss me off so much.

So, Damsel - you use the NHS & state schools yet you proudly state that you used a loophole in the law to avoid contributing the amount of tax that you SHOULD have paid.
Of course you won't be claiming benefits because you have therefore made yourself rich.
Well done for being so clever.
No, you haven't broken any laws.

I don't think I need to say any more, do i?