to be amazed at people going to church

[Hullygully]

I really didn't think anyone still did the whole church on Sunday thing (this is not meant rudely, am just genuinely amazed).

Why do you go?

Don't you go out dancing and drinking on Sat and have a terrible hangover?

Or don't you want to have a lie-in with the papers?

Do you have roast dinner after?

Where do you live?

My mum started going to church because my dad was doing open university, so she had to get us out the house, and church was free. She still goes, I don't know if she really believes in it all (actually I don't know if she knows either) but she just goes... well, because.

Hully I was raised a Christian but never had it forced on me, if we didn't want to go to church we didn't have to. I chose to be confirmed when I was 11. My faith has always been important to me, but it was only when DS was very poorly at 8 weeks old that I realised how important not only my faith but the church and church community are.

Hebiegebies What was it you wanted to know?

Waves at Grimma remembered fondly from the safe haven for atheist thread

Thank you to whoever posted about Sea of Faith (can't find the blasted post) that looks very interesting.

That middle bit was not supposed to be entirely in bold, not shouting, honest.

That's great Hully ! Glad I haven't completely put you off !
I think the Quaker community could really suit you

wyrd I read your earlier post and have to say I think it's great your so supportive of your DDs own religious exploration. Too often people expect their own children to automatically follow them into faith or lack off

I do very much like the idea of a centre for the community, all coming together and helping each other etc, in fact everything about church apart form the religion! You'd probably find an awful lot of people in the church who feel the same way! Not for me to judge anyone's reason's for attending church though.

Can I ask believers, were you brought up that way? Did you discover a faith later? How does it work, if you know what I mean? Was not brought up Christian - parents both lapsed Catholics, was not baptised as a baby. Went to vaguely Xtian schools, was very curious about it but felt it was "not me", partly because I was at that point a massive intellectual snob and thought all Christians were stupid. Then I was a chapel chorister at university because I liked singing (and because the choir had an excellent social life ), and over the course of the years I met some frighteningly intelligent Christians, gained more intellectual respect for it and slowly started absorbing it aesthetically and intellectually.

About the cross - YMMV, but I understand it as a sign that Christ has come to overthrow the existing order of things. The point is that nobody expected the Messiah to die the death of a common criminal - even the Apostles thought everything was over once Jesus had been executed. The cross and the resurrection together are a sign to Christians that Our Messiah Is Different, if you like - the first shall be last and the last shall be first etc. etc. It's saying that our priorities are different to the priorities of the world - the fact that Jesus was executed in the most humiliating way possible and was yet resurrected is a sign that the existing social order is going to be overthrown. It's not like we get off on the torture involved.

The cross wasn't used much as a symbol in the first centuries of the church btw - it is a later thing.

1. I go because my faith as a Christian should be expressed in corporate worship - in community with others: Christianity is not an isolationist faith. I appreciate the teaching, the music, the liturgy, the congregational aspect of worship and prayer. Also, there is social community, beauty, silence and time for reflection. I have attended church weekly all my life. Sometimes it feels hard work to get up and go, but then afterwards I always appreciate having gone. I would miss it very much if I didn't go.

1. I don't think most people go out drinking and dancing on a Saturday night, but I'm quite good to go to church on a Sunday, if I've been to some event on a Saturday evening. I don't drink to excess.

1. A lot of church services start at 10am or later. I can have a lie-in with the papers every Sunday and still be at church mid-morning, even if I have duties which mean an early arrival (junior church, coffee rota etc).

1. Yes, we have roast dinners after church, but not every week. There is such a thing as an oven timer for a roast, and then sometimes we do the meal for the evening instead of lunch-time.

1. I live in the North of England.

Hully btw I think you should look into Christian Socialism and/or Liberation Theology. I think you would get a lot out of finding out more about the Christian social justice movement.

Thanks for that Sirzy, have to say the experience has been almost painless. If we'd got there and it had been "You unbeliever are going to HELL-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L we wouldn't have gone again whatever my DD wanted.

I might have tried another church though.

FairPhyllis - I'll add that to the list...

If I refused to be friends with religious people, I wouldn't have any. It's absolutely the norm in Northern Ireland to attend church every week.

Most people who don't attend church still have a faith in a Christian sort of a god of sorts.

To say one is an atheist is still shocking here.

I was in Mass on Sunday for a christening (close friend's baby). Friend does not believe in god, but essentially is hedging her bets, and also wishes to provide the child with a denomination. That's an attitude I've heard several times from religious non-believers. They want their children raised within the church, regardless of faith, because faith actually has very little to do with it.

BTW, when I say atheist, I mean that I am 99.9% certain that the evidence points to the non-existence of an interested interventionist deity. There is, of course, room for me to be wrong, but that 0.1% chance is not enough for me to live my life by.

Why do you go?

I go because I like the community feel, the structure, DD is in the choir, we have friends there, it's a good way to meet people when moving to a new area, it's peaceful, it's spiritual and I want to take part in the Eucharist. Also, I want DD to learn about Christian theology, history and tradition which I think is a vital part of anyone's education if they live in England. Understanding the moral culture, societal structure, laws etc is helped by having a good knowledge of Christianity (as, I suppose, knowing about Islam would be beneficial to living in the Middle East).

Don't you go out dancing and drinking on Sat and have a terrible hangover?

From time to time - have been known to go to bed at 5am and be at church for 10.30am. Or not. I don't necessarily go every Sunday, but like to go as much as I can.

Or don't you want to have a lie-in with the papers?

Lie-in would be nice. But then I don't wake up until half nine anyway on a Sunday, so it's not like I don't get extra sleep. Also, if I didn't get up to go to church I'd probably sleep til noon.

Do you have roast dinner after?

No, I rarely cook a roast.

Where do you live?

Ealing

what wild swans so beautifully said, exactly that

(thanks wild swans, you have saved me typing out 5 questions and answers)

I'd be a little cautious about going along to an Alpha course - from what I've heard they are not as truly open to exploring the meaning of life as they suggest.
I think they are quite evangelical. If you are interested in joining a church and becoming a christian then they may be fine - I think just to be aware that that is likely to be their agenda.

For those interested in the Quaker way there is an opportunity to explore and ask questions through "Quaker Quest" which is held weekly at Friends House (on the Euston Road) in London, and I think at other locations around the country. Of course we probably have a bit of our own Quaker agenda too - but I think are more open to people's individual exploration.

Do Quakers believe in God, juggling?

I'm sure my friend said they didn't, as such.

Dh's grandparents were Christadelphians. That is fancy.

I could just wiki Quakers of course..

I have a friend who was raised Brethren who went along to an Alpha Course run by them. She already believes in Jesus and all that jazz. She left after two weeks, because there was a set type of question one was allowed to ask, and no deviation was allowed.

As in, she asked a question about the attitude of St. Paul towards women, and wanted to talk about how misogyny became so entrenched in the church. Stonewalled.

That just makes it more tempting to me, crunchy!

Thought it might. I quite fancy it myself, in my more adversarial moments.

They try to get to me through my kids though, my autistic 6 year old is currently very worried about the "fact" that I am going to hell. Thanks, street preachers.

I think that I might try a Quaker meeting. I don't know much about them, but all the compassionate people in history who actually did things to aid the poor and oppressed seemed to be Quakers. I love the idea of having silence.

You know if I phoned my friend and said I wanted to go to Quakers with her, she would EXPLODE on the spot.

It would be worth it.

I feel bad now after this thread. She phoned me late and drunk one night a few years ago and said she had something to tell me and that i wasn't allowed to laugh and/or argue, and it was about her faith. I didn't laugh or argue, but I didn't really accept it either.

I might phone her up.

I think Alphas must vary quite a bit depending on who is running them. I heard of one group locally who always had an initial friendly meeting, at which they'd suss out who were the 'troublemakers' (like Crunchy's friend) and put them into a separate group. Sheep and goats