to think Julian Assange should bugger off to Sweden, sharpish

[MarysBeard]

...to face rape/sexual assault allegations?

Gaby, the US doesn't have to convict you to keep you in prison for a very long time. In fact, there are a number of folks who are actually innocent, as in, what they were initially picked up for was even a crime who can't get out of prison. Even the Justice department has admitted they are innocent, but won't let them go. Also, there's non-citizen languishing in Guantanamo bay and other detention centers in the US who haven't done anything, and have the proof, but can't get out. And look at what the government has done to Bradley Manning who before he'd even been to court. so I think his fear of extradition is that if he is extradited, it won't matter what the charges are or are not. He's toast.
And it's my understanding that Sweden will do what the US asks, for whatever reason.

izzyizin and ToxicMoxie, I honestly think that in Assange's case, the likelihood of something terrible happening to him within the US judicial system has been vastly distorted and overstated.

Not saying that people don't have massive, massive injustices done to them within the criminal justice and prison system. But someone who
a) will have every step in his case followed in detail by the media
b) will have access to very, very good lawyers challenging every step of the process
c) has not committed any crime which it is uncomplicated to indict and convict him for
does not have to fear a miscarriage of justice in the same way as say, a person living on the margins of society who might be framed for a murder they had nothing to do with and end up on Death Row.

I also accept that he might actually be scared of being killed or harmed outside of the legal system. But do you honestly think that if the CIA wanted to kill him or drug him to send him mad they couldn't do it in England?

'But do you honestly think that if the CIA wanted to kill him or drug him to send him mad they couldn't do it in England?'

I don't see that as the issue, Gabby.

What I do see is that, if extradited to the US, this man will no doubt be remanded without bail for what could be a very considerable length of time.

He will undoubtedly have access to good lawyers but, other than for periods of consultation, they won't be in jail with him - nor will the reporters who are following his case.

has not committed any crime which it is uncomplicated to indict and convict him for

He is on bail at the moment. I don't think fear of being on bail is a sufficient reason not to face the music in Sweden.

The fact that they can't convict him means they are unlikely to extradite him; it will be embarassing to the US to try and fail to get a conviction.

spectacular failure to post whole response. continuation below:

You say has not committed any crime which it is uncomplicated to indict and convict him for. I say that jeopardising America's homeland security and the safety of its armed forces is pretty straightforward and I wouldn't be optimistic of acquittal in bible belt certain States.

What we're not privy to is why Assage has chosen to seek political asylum at this point in time; why he chose Ecuador, and what advice, and from whom, he sought prior to making this decision.

Perhaps the bail money that has been put up by his patrons is not quite so subject to forfeit as it would have been if he'd done a runner donned a simple disguise and hopped over to France on a cross-channel ferry?

Sometimes I wish I could be a fly on the wall or manning personning a spy satellite at crucial moments.

History will deliver it's verdict for those that care live to see it.

Assange was placed on bail by the UK Courts pending the outcome extradition proceedings filed by Sweden, Gabby. The UK Supreme Court has ruled that Assange should be extradited to Sweden and I believe this was due to be effected sometime next week.

You've said the fact that they can't convict him means they are unlikely to extradite him, If you are referring to the Swedish Courts, as Assange has yet to be questioned or charged, no assumption can be made about the outcome in the event that he should be tried for crimes of a sexual or other nature which are alleged to have taken place in Sweden.

If you are referring to any application by the USA to extradite Assange from Sweden (presupposing he returns to that country) then again, in that eventuality, I cannot see that any assumption can be made about the outcome of any such proceedings at this point in time.

It's an unfolding story which I will continue to follow with interest.

On why Assange choose Ecuador, the foreign minister offered him residency back in November 2010. This was backtracked on somewhat the next day but presumably Assange believes they are sympathetic to his cause. Possibly it would go down well domestically to be seen to be supporting a truth-sayer against the US. Much of South America uses a lot of anti-US rhetoric and though it might be tricky in regard to trade agreements with the US it might be popular within the Union of South American Nations and possibly with other trading power houses like China and Russia.

What I don't really understand is why Assange is claiming Sweden is such a dangerous place for him now, though he was quite happy to be there back in the Summer of 2010. This was after the documents had been released on wikileaks and presumably at a point when the US could have had Sweden hand him over, if they had wanted him and if Sweden was actually the lap dog Assange claims.

Hi there.

Please can we ask you not to post anything that implies Julian Assange is guilty of rape or anything that implies that those whose complaints to the police have resulted in the charge of rape are guilty of fabricating facts. As this case has not yet come to court, any posts containing implications of this sort are likely be deleted.

Thanks all.

Does that mean that references to certain high profile MN campaigns will be deleted Kat?

KatMumsnet Just wondering, bearing in mind no one can imply Assange is a rapist, what the policy on posts implying that the alleged victims are lying/accusing him maliciously is?

@Empusa

KatMumsnet Just wondering, bearing in mind no one can imply Assange is a rapist, what the policy on posts implying that the alleged victims are lying/accusing him maliciously is?

Those would be deleted too.

@DilysPrice

Does that mean that references to certain high profile MN campaigns will be deleted Kat?

It's fine to reference the Rape Awareness Campaign, though of course it depends on the context. If it was in response to a post that broke our guidelines/the law then we'd have to delete both posts.

That's good to know :) This thread must be nightmare for you!

One of the things I wonder about with this is that his supporters talk about "freedom of speech" and "civil liberties", using those as reasons why he shouldn't be extradited, and yet he is seeking asylum in a country not exactly known for either of those things? Surely if he's a hero for freedom of speech, rather than someone who is only running away from just being questioned, then he wouldn't want to align himself with Ecuador?

Because he is trying to save his own arse.

He doesn't care (imo) about civil liberties, just wants to be famous