To wonder why women put up with such crap from the men in their lives?

[seeker]

There's always threads on here about men being unable to cook, or about men making women feel so uncomfortable in the driving seat of a car that they can't drive when the man is in the car.........and women seem to think this sort of thing is normal and acceptable. Or even if they don't they still think it's up to them as women to modify their behaviour to accommodate men.

Why???????????????

True. Same as some people saying they have PND when they haven't really.

Oh to be told to 'Fuck off' - luxury. I was sexually abused. My ex systematically alienated me from my friends. He made my parents' deaths all about him and his grief. He constantly told me I was fat and blamed his erectile problems on me being fat. But then would bring takeaways when he knew I was trying to lose weight. On the rare occasions, about 2 years into our relationship, that I went out with friends, I would be questioned about who I'd spoken to and accused of seeking other men. He even accused me of having an affair with a gay man.

But it all started so innocently and subtly. He made me doubt myself and my self-esteem ebbed away. I had no friends or family to back me up or talk to and there was no Mumsnet to sound off.

I didn't mean for my post to cause anyone to feel as though they have to justify the abuse that happened to them by the way.

Again I'm just saying I wonder if it's an over used phrase and that reading MN makes us think men in general are abusive and women are generally not.

It may not be directed at me. But I'm on MN and I talked about abuse. Hence the clarification simply to add balance.

Also, very often before the real abuse kicks in the verbal abuse will start. Why do people on the Jeremy Kyle show SPEAK the way they do?

Because they're all living in fear and they see abuse as normal. That's why when they speak to each other they sound like they hate each other.

I agree with you though, Worra. It is over used, as is PND. And then when there is actually a real problem it lessens it, in a way.

'Oh my dp calls me 'wobblebum' and never washes up' really isn't the same thing.

I think that in that thread it just gives a skewed perception of what women are 'putting up' with. The topic of the conversation is swapping drivers (usually women swapping to passenger) and so that is what people are talking about.

Some of those men are probably a bit control freak-y in the car, but can cook, clean and all the rest of it, and sometimes it goes the other way. For the first couple of years of my relationship I refused to cook because 'I can't' and my husband did all the cooking for him, myself and DD1 (I have grown up since then and learned to cook btw) my DH on the other hand is terrible at keeping the house clean.

For what it's worth, my DH can't drive (is learning) and therefore fine with me driving everywhere I hate driving with my grandmother on the other hand because she is a horrible backseat driver and drives me mad, so I let her drive her car when we go out together. I don't think anyone would be wondering why I 'put up' with this sort of thing from my grandmother though.

Don't know if I have explained that properly but there you go. Also, I am not in anyway trying to write off serious relationship issues, some of which are talked about in this thread, but I think the OP didn't mean serious domestic abuse.

But I don't see it as such crap.

My Dh is absolutely lovely, he is a wonderful father, much better than I am a mother. He treats me well, when I read the descriptions of abuse some women go through on mn its just completely unimaginable for me as my DH, who I've been with for 25 years would never behave in that way.

However, and I have read the driving thread, my DH is the same in the car as a lot of men. Its all sharp intakes of breath, and foot pushed down on the imaginary break, head in his hands and occasionally grabbing of the wheel. Am I supposed to leave him because of that? At the time I usually tell him STFU, but it doesn't really upset me and once we're out of the car its done. I behave in the same way about him cooking, dressing the children, doing the DDs hair and I'm never satisfied with his cleaning.

Sometimes, I'm horrible to live and sometimes so is he but int he grand scheme of things its so minor its a non-issue.

Also I agree with Worra I do think abuse is an over used phrase, some of the posts on here highlight real abuse. But often I think it is people trying intellectualise arguments and disagreements to maintain the moral highground or justify an opinion.

usually parental models. all of us have the good and bad traits of our parents even if we dont want to recognise them.
a woman who has always been submissive, who's mother or even father was submissive can often struggle in a relationship where they are expected to make decisions, simply because they have never had to. They therefore seek out bossier men/women then whinge about them on M'snet.

ha ha the imaginer foot brake - DH always denies it when he does it!!

oh didnt realise this was a thread about abused spouses, thought it was about bossy men in cars/day to day life and why women whinge about them.

Also I should add the way my DH behaves in the car is probably nothing compared to how i am with my DM in the car she really is a terrible driver though and if I'm honest I do actually expect her to change her driving as a result.

Of course you're not supposed to leave him because of the backseat driving! But for heaven's sake- don't just accept it! He's perfectly capable of stopping doing it!

remember this is a website that is mainly used by women

many people are perfectly nice but have a few annoying habits and this is what many threads attracts partners moaning about annoying habit(s) that their otherwise lovely partner has or they may jsut like to have a moan

but then there are woman that are in abusive relationships (yes the word is overused but again you see patterns that are very obvious too) and threads like these are not in anyway supportive to them or telling them that you would not put up with this or that which i see so often

But my point is seeker, why shouldn't I just accept it? It doesn't really phase me, its a minor irritation. If he stopped putting up with all the things I do that irritate him and I did the same I think lots of aspects of our lives would grind to a halt.

And really the complaint that he is expecting me to change my behaviour to suit him, could then be made by my DH if I ask him to change his behaviour to appease me.

Most of this minor stuff is swings and roundabouts.

"Its all sharp intakes of breath, and foot pushed down on the imaginary break, head in his hands and occasionally grabbing of the wheel."

You shouldn't put up with that because it's incredibly dangerous.

He could cause a serious accident with that kind of behaviour.

Being an ignorant cunt in the car is one thing, but actually putting you and your children in danger (not to mention the rest of us on the road) because he can't control his temper in the car is seriously out of order and he needs to get a grip of himself.

I agree with you Ruby, do we really have any right to ask someone to change? Particularly if we aren't prepared to do it ourselves.

If the person we are asking to "change" is behaving like a dick, then yes we do have a right to ask them to stop behaving like a dick.

But it does seem that women never behave like dicks on these boards. Plus dick-ish behaviour is fairly subjective isn't it, so is it just down to the aggrieved partner deciding that they dislike the others behaviour and asking for change then?

"Plus dick-ish behaviour is fairly subjective isn't it, so is it just down to the aggrieved partner deciding that they dislike the others behaviour and asking for change then?"

Grabbing the steering wheel when someone else is driving is not EVER OK. It is dickish, dangerous, totally unacceptable and incredibly disrespectful. Not to mention showing a worrying lack of self-control.

That feeling pissed off with it is a subjective experience doesn't mean that it is unfair to ask somebody to desist behaving like that in a car.

And no, MN is full of women calling each other out for perceived dickish behaviour. I think you just want to twist every argument into a "reverse sexism" issue that you think you are immune to.

There's a difference between something being dick like and being dangerous. I completely agree that grabbing at a driving wheel is a dangerous act.

This particular thread has had huge generalisations about how men do x, or men can't do y. All I've said, and others, is that it isn't a men issue its a general people/relationship issue. I don't understand why men and women have to be pitted against one another as if we are completely different species. I think you can constructively tell someone 'I don't like it when you do...' but then I think we all have to be open to being told that, it's not just a men thing.

If you think men and women are exactly the same, are socialised in the same, way, that our culture is not sexist and brings with it no sexist assumptions about the roles people should play in families and how they should behave, then you are living on a different planet from the one I inhabit.

Maybe there is a Dadsnet somewhere with lots of men moaning about how their wives never lift a finger in house to do domestic chores or look after the children and use all the family money on themselves.

But I doubt it.

The idea that men are real people and women just supporting characters is quite a popular one.

There is a dadsnet. My DP and I visited it the other day and I was surprised to see that no, the dads on there are not sitting round comparing and bitching about women. They actually discuss family issues and others respond with practical suggestions and help. Go have a look.

Oooh...they have a thread about mumsnet on there.

www.dadsnet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=602

I have seen some pretty dickish behaviour from women on here though. I remember one woman saying her dp was trying to budget and thought they couldn't afford a holiday that year. They discussed it together and then she posted asking if she was BU to book the holiday anyway and then went ahead and did it even though most people thought she was being unreasonable.

I've also seen women on here complaining about such tiny tiny things that makes me think they must be very controlling and a nightmare to live with.

But, I wouldn't generalise about all women being like those and I wouldn't think that all men are bastards either.

Having said that, many people use this place to have a good old rant and to get things out of their system.

I will go and have a look at the oher thread in a sec but - bearing in mind the original intent rather than the other important views on a slightly different point, yy to all the DV pps so far btw-

Some parts have been mentioned previously but I think 'such crap' is actually quite subjective. There will be things that irritate/infuriate/frustrate/hurt you to the quick that I will not give a shit about. It just won't bother me and V/V.
Some behaviours, within the confines of a healthy and respectful relationship, that just don't need the energy spent on modifying them imo - it does no harm. Conversely there are some that do harm or do impact on the wider relationship that should be changed. However only the people in that relationship can decide what they are.

We tend to work on a system of balances - is the irritation equal to the time necessary to change the behaviour? We've only ever used it once and that was the great Nutella debate (which I "won" if it matters).
We don't have all the energy in the world, we do need to ration it.

Also, we have very few disagreements or points at which compromise must be reached, we are very well suited in terms of life goals, parenting technique...idk, fish forks, all that. I can't actually remember an occasion when we have been on opposite sides of the fence.

But - if I write about how great my relationship is, how we don't really fall out much (maybe one argument a year ish) and we don't find each other hard work then many posters and people irl will not be thinking 'ok - I accept the veracity of your statement' they will be thinking 'Bollocks' and will be picking apart what I say to find the lie. So if you are in a relationship that is very hard work you are subtley kept there and if you are not and in a very good relationship that keeps you very happy without being hard work you are 'Doing It Wrong' and there is some flaw somewhere whether that is plain lies, denial, it must be so boring or there's something fishy about that you poor naive girl. It can be a very undermining litany if you let it be, DH and I have been accused of having affairs, have been tolld we must have a shit sex life, won't last etc and I wonder how many people have found that does cause issues when they hear it from all and sundry?
That's what I don't understand - Relationships are hard work, this is some kind of 'truth' so when there is a relaitonship that isn't then that's shady as fuck but actually if you have to work too hard that's wrong too (as it often is due to the causes) so who's marking my template? Why isn't it me actually?!

I cannot beleive that one poster (athing) has called rubyfakenails husband a cunt

sweet jesus!

thats shockingly rude

athing you clearly have a strong opinion, and thats FINE.....thats why we come on here

but how dare you call someone husband a cunt?