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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why women put up with such crap from the men in their lives?

112 replies

seeker · 15/06/2012 09:37

There's always threads on here about men being unable to cook, or about men making women feel so uncomfortable in the driving seat of a car that they can't drive when the man is in the car.........and women seem to think this sort of thing is normal and acceptable. Or even if they don't they still think it's up to them as women to modify their behaviour to accommodate men.

Why???????????????

OP posts:
Paiviaso · 15/06/2012 10:50

Since joining Mumsnet, I have been eternally frustrated by the posts from women who boyfriends were selfish/misogynistic/ungrateful/etc, but have THEN GONE ON TO MARRY THEM AND HAVE CHILDREN DESPITE KNOWING THIS.

Its just baffling. Do these women think so little of themselves that they think, "this is as good as it gets?"

Teeb · 15/06/2012 10:52

From what I have seen in relationship threads Paiviaso yes I believe they do.

AThingInYourLife · 15/06/2012 10:57

"I agree Abigail that serious abuse against women (as well as men of course) is absolutely wrong."

(my emphasis)

And that's the problem.

Serious abuse is "absolutely wrong", but mild abuse, subtle abuse is only kind of wrong.

The kind of wrong you should "compromise" with.

And even before you get to abusive behaviour there is no reason anyone should put up with a shit partner.

Tiptoptoe · 15/06/2012 10:58

I havent read the whole thread but since you are not talking abuse here but just general stuff - its because at the end of it, none of us are perfect either and we know that. It is not like we dont bitch if he does something that annoys us, or have a nag when we having a bad day, etc. Hell some of us dont like to cook or dont like to iron, etc Not that different really and certainly no more perfect than our partners.

Basically, we put up with shit from our men because we give shit as well. Only a perfect person will find a perfect partner. We would all be single and who wants perfect anyway.

seeker · 15/06/2012 10:58

As I said earlier- this thread was badly titled. I'm not talking about violence, or serious emotional abuse. But I am talking, for example, about the thread where the vast majority of women posting don't drive when their partners are in the car because of the torrent of backseat driving- so, instead of saying that it is unacceptable and getting the man to change his behaviour, they just don't drive.

And this is not the same as the woman getting her way over the colour of the hall carpet!

OP posts:
LST · 15/06/2012 11:00

YABU. For one it's not always the man. My DP puts up with a lot.

It gets on my nerves how men do blah blah and they are cunts, twats and the op should leave now but if the woman does the same blah blah then they get good on you's and Grin's and merry merry..

Teeb · 15/06/2012 11:02

I can just imagine a man telling a sahm if the house was untidy that 'this is unacceptable, you need to change your behaviour' would go down like a barrel of laughs.

LST · 15/06/2012 11:04

Teeb exactly! But the other way round....

seeker · 15/06/2012 11:06

There are always exceptions. But saying that "my personal experience is different" does not change the generality of experience. And the of experience does not challenge or negate your personal experience.

OP posts:
seeker · 15/06/2012 11:08

Sorry' that last sentence has a missing word-" and the generality of experience does not negate or challenge your personal experience.

OP posts:
manicbmc · 15/06/2012 11:17

Serious EA very often starts in subtle little ways. With mine it was 'why are there toys on the floor', 'what have you done all day' (at home with very fractious twins) and 'why isn't tea ready'. I did all the discussing and communicating and explaining but in the end was constantly justifying my existence. There was no support. It was all one way. I would support him and his awful career choices and he would moan and gripe (along with his mother).

Lots of people come on here having a moan and a gripe. If they have the kind of relationship where they can talk and compromise then that's great. It isn't always the case though.

D0oinMeCleanin · 15/06/2012 11:18

As pointed out earlier Paiviaso these 'men' do not start out this way.

Had someone told me 8 years ago that I would be living the way I was now, with a man like DH, I would, quite literally, have wet myself laughing. Or slapped them.

When I met him he was kind, helpful, thoughtful, great with dd1, excellent with my dog, made a massive effort to like my cats, despite hating cats.

He was the kind of man who come and alleviate my sisters from babysitting duties early so he could clean up the mess they'd leave me when I was working nights and make sure I had lunch to come home to. He'd then take dd1 out to the park or for a walk so I could sleep and come home and a cook me a meal and run me a bath for when I woke.

This is the same man, who now, is incapable of reading his own children, whom he lives with, a bedtime story, or even ensuring I have a clean pots and pans to make my own supper with when I finish work at midnight, him having spent the night on the sofa with his feet up, hugging the dog he wanted to keep, who he has not bothered to train and then moaned at me when she won't stop jumping up at him Confused

He didn't change overnight. It happened so slowly that I didn't spot it until I was already exhausted by it. He lunged from one crisis to the next, making me feel unable to leave. How could I leave when he was depressed? Bereaved? Had just lost his job? Was fearing he had cancer? Is at risk of losing another job? etc. etc. etc.

He's also clever enough to do just enough to leave me looking like an ungrateful madam when I moan or to go and purchase something big and fancy for me when I talk about leaving. Usually on credit. Then what? I can just walk out and he can tell people how I have left him lumbered with debt after he worked so hard to provide for us all. Or he will book a holiday and then get the children all excited about going away as a family.

He also gets the kids on his side picking out and emphasising things I haven't done or don't do enough and then going on at them about it until they repeat it to others i.e. "Mammy said she would bake with us and then didn't. Mammy never does anything with us, she always promises to and then never does. Daddy took us to the park, yesterday" Yup, he did. And left all the washing and cleaning for Mammy's day off so mammy has no time. I could just leave it, but then we'd be living in squalor and that would be my fault too.

And things will change. Things will always change when the next crisis ends. Things were going to be better when we moved. Things were going to better once he had recovered from losing his nephew. Things were going to be better once he left his job he hated. Things were going to be better when he found a new job. Things are now going to be better when his job is no longer at risk and he has started his counselling and found out what is wrong with him. Or he will be dead. His illness might possibly be terminal now Hmm here's hoping, eh?

Plus we haven't argued for months, things are getting better, he is trying. Um, no. I've just given up, that's what's changed, you're no longer verbally abusive because I have given up challenging you, so there is no need to be.

There is 4k sitting in an account I have access to. I could, theoretically, just go now. Go and put a deposit down on a house right now and be gone before he gets home from work. But how can I do that when the children are looking forward to their holiday in a few weeks and DH is having blood tests because has something seriously wrong, not to mention the fact that he now needs counselling to help with his anxiety and depression. Who would get the sympathy and support? And I'm not strong enough to do it alone. I'm shattered.

To the outside world he is a good man who works hard to provide for us all, despite his medical and MH issues. I expect too much of him.

manicbmc · 15/06/2012 11:22

Dooin, sounds very very familiar.

pantylace · 15/06/2012 11:22

I think the "relationships are hard work" is the start of the problem. I believed that and worked bloody hard at keeping abusive men. The first one I was with for 6 years and the next one, who was worse than the first lasted 13 years. No, relationships should not be hard work. When they are that is generally when the relationship is not the right one.

I took 6 years out on my own and learned my worth and for the past 4 years I've been adored by a man who is worthy of me. This is the easiest relationship I have had in my life! It's even easier than the relationships I had with my parent and/or siblings.

No, relationships should not be hard work. Though there are moments of compromise.

amicissimma · 15/06/2012 11:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

porcamiseria · 15/06/2012 11:54

awww doing, what an honest post

x

porcamiseria · 15/06/2012 12:02

I think alot of labelling goes on

Emotional adbuse
gaslighting

etc

sometimes, love dies and people turn into arseholes. and they stop being nice to each other. and the idea of leaving is equally as horrible as the idea of staying

and men and women are equally affected

GOD. DEPRESSED NOW!!!!

seeker · 15/06/2012 12:03

Absolutely relationships shouldn't be hard work. They should be fun and joyful and uplifting. Or they are not worth having. The "relationships are hard work" line is routinely fed to women- basically what it means is that women should do the work of keeping a relationship going!

There is a campaign at my dd' school called "Love Shouldn't Hurt" about emotional and physical abuse. I think it should be every woman's mantra.

OP posts:
manicbmc · 15/06/2012 12:06

What a great thing for school to be doing.

WorraLiberty · 15/06/2012 12:12

I do wonder at times if the word 'abusive' is as over used on MN as the words 'bullying' and 'demanded' are.

If a woman posts to say "I left my abusive Husband" or "My abusive ex blah blah" obviously no-one is going to question what sort of abuse it was because that's personal and out of order.

But I still wonder if their definition of 'abusive' is that he screamed "Fuck Off!" during arguments...in exactly the same way that she also screamed "Fuck Off!" during arguments?

I'm not belittling or trivialising abuse of any kind by the way (just to make that clear) but none the less reading MN might give the impression there are more abusive ex Husbands than ex Wives and in actual fact that might not be the case.

We only get one side of a story here and all we can do is trust the OP isn't giving a biased account.

Yet it's human nature to give a slightly unbiased account when you feel you're the hard done by party.

WorraLiberty · 15/06/2012 12:13

That should read "It's human nature to give a slightly biased account"

porcamiseria · 15/06/2012 12:16

I agree worra

Now do not get me wrong, there are some terrible situations out there. I hand on heart I am glad they get support on here.

However, you often see posters say "he told me to fuck off" and then you read response
"WHAT! he told you to FUCK OFF. I would never put up with that level of abuse. People dont talk to each other like that in mutually respectful loving relationships"

I mean come on!

pantylace · 15/06/2012 12:17

WorraLiberty I will clarify what I mean. My first husband beat me up at least 3 times a week. My Doctor called me Mrs Slipped and Fell.

My second husband was physically abusive to start until I had him locked up, then he moved to mind games.

The biggest one he played was while I was waiting for unlimited residency and he bought me a one way ticket back to my home country without my children.

It was abuse, not simply a fuck off.

porcamiseria · 15/06/2012 12:18

panty, gosh. I can clearly see thats domestic volence, and you have my utmost sympathies

I dont think original post even touched on violence of this level Sad

WorraLiberty · 15/06/2012 12:23

panty my post wasn't directed at you, in fact I didn't even read it.

It's a general "I wonder if 'abuse' is a very over used phrase on MN"

I guess we'll never really know but it could well be giving a skewed view of things because we don't know what that posters definition of 'abuse' actually is...and we don't know if she was just as abusive to her ex.