To ask if you are or have been the parent of a bully...

[Tootiredtosleep]

My DD was singled out and excluded for most of Year 3 by one girl. This girl is a born ring leader and easily manipulates the other children. DD withdrew on the basis that not being involved with the group of girls was a better option than being picked on, excluded etc.

She had quite a miserable year. We made several trips into the school. The child was spoken to, the parents were spoken to etc. things would always get better for a while then revert to the norm of excluding DD. As an adult I could see that this child was jealous. She also had a much stronger personality and by excluding DD, made life a lot nicer for herself.

Anyway, I digress. Things are gradually getting better and DD is settling down a bit.

I often think that whilst hard for me to witness and distressing for DD, how must it feel to be on the other side? It's all well and good having the school on your side and all saying great things about your DD. What is it like, however, on the other side? This girls parents are nice people. They seem like very caring parents. They never apologised for their DD's behaviour. Do you go into denial and think it must not be true or blown out of proportion?

Would love to hear it from the other side?

Have name changed and changed some details.

'What was it that made it continue? Did the parents not take it on board?'

No, the parents didn't initially. They were very nice people and just could not accept that their DD was capable of that kind of behaviour. They were absolutely insistent for months that it just was not possible and that DD was lying. In fact, it was only when the childs mother went to drop something off at the school and actually saw her own daughter kicking another child to the ground and heard her swear and call this child names that she realised what was really going on. I was so angry at her for not taking the situation seriously but I also felt incredibly sorry for her. The shock must have been awful.

Sarge, you made me cry. I wish you were my DDs teacher. She doesn't seem to care and has a 'we are here to work, let's stop this silly nonsnse' attitude.

Dollysdrawers, must have been awful for her, but glad she seen it. It's a wonder the teachers couldn't have made her realise before things got so bad for your DD.

My dc have not been bullied or been bullies but I had a very interesting conversation with father of the only child I know who is a nasty verbal bully. His dad basically condoned bullying and worried that with all the anti-bullying stuff at school that his son wouldn't learn enough about bullying. Although 'not enough to make the other child sucidual'

He's a Really nice, MC professional dad. His son obviously picks up on his Dad's values and thinks that it's an Ok way to behave.

Sarge. "On the other side I also know children from loving backgrounds who bully. This is usually more of the name calling, friends one minute and ditched the next, rumour spreading bitchy types who ringlead groups. They set out to pick someone to shreds by making them feel isolated and it really makes my blood boil! Parents of these types of children rarely get their heads around the nasty piece of work their precious child can be when surrounded by their peers, and usually find away of making their child also a victim when often they are far from it."

Sarge - I'm worried this exactly is what is happening to my child at the moment. Never had a problem in the past, he has always been a very happy child at school and great reports from the teachers. Recently things seem to be happening and I'm worried thatit is starting tomhave an effecton him and would hate for his happy attitude about school to change. I have no experience of this and have no idea how best to deal with it. Hoping it is a passing phase and will calm down. One child seems to be the instigator with help from his friend. If wad a one on one disagreement that would be fine but this child seems to be popular and has influence over the others. Feeling I'll have to go and speak to the teacher to gether take but just don't want to aggravate things and make them worse. Can't believe how upset I feel and it is still relatively low key.

im going through this at the moment. My DD has been crying at night saying she doesnt want to go to school because of XX. This gorl has done it to others in the past, they are 7 and due to go to the same junior school. I spoke to the teacher last week and explained about just how upset DD has been.
It is heartbreaking, i have never felt so upset in my life as i did when my DD was sat up in bed sobbing that she didnt want to go to school the next day.
Thankfully the teacvher seems to have listened to what i said and is watching what is going on in the class and intervening with it, she also said she will make a recomendation to the junior schhol that my DD and the nasty little shit (say what you like, she is!) are not in the same class.
I see myself as a girl in my daughter, not shy but holding back all the time, sensitive and not one of the loud ones, although very nice girl and liked by many. I think all will be o.k with her if she follows the way that i did- got to about 12/13 and thought stuff this, im not sitting quietly while people treat me like this

I would rather be the parent of a bully than a bullied child any day of the week.

I cannot tell you how much i want to kick this child and make her see how it feels to have someone bigger and more confident than you treat you like this.

Veritythebrave - your poor child. I am absolutely bewildered at the cruelty you spell out in your post. WTF are the teachers doing?

I was bullied at school, throughout school. I do have self esteem issues as a result personally, although not professionally. it has a lifelong impact on a personality.

my DD's friend (who we have known since 6 months old) and is now 5 is seemingly turning into a bully, she is very confident, but can be quite a horror in the way she manipulates people and is aggressive toward not just my DD but other girls in the class also. She currently taunts an autistic boy in the class and her parents who we know well are doing nothing about this. They rarely reprimand her and her father thinks its ok for her to stick up for herself.

I have spoken to her mother about it. Her mother is my friend and I want her to know that her daughter's behaviour is teetering on the edge so she can deal with it now.

I really worry about my DC's and school :-(

I would rather be the parent of a bully any day than the parent of a bullied child, at least with the bully you can deal with it yourself, it is in your control, you can personally find out why they are doing it to other children and help it stop.

Really well put. And thank you for answering my question, which came out quite crass [tired], but was a genuine question.

Your poor DD :(

ShellyBoobs Wed 13-Jun-12 20:00:49

"I don't think that the parents of a bully would be worrying too much about her/him taking her/his own life."

I wouldn't be too sure about that. The bullies I have come across- both as a child and as a parent- have had some pretty serious problems; I imagine their parents must have been terrified.

No excuse for bullying, of course. But as the parent of a child with pretty serious problems who recently did attempt suicide, I have to say that it is a relief that at least we don't have the additional problem of her bullying others. We just don't need that on top of everything else. So I think I'm with seeker on this one.

veritythebrave Wed 13-Jun-12 23:19:33
"I would rather be the parent of a bully any day than the parent of a bullied child, at least with the bully you can deal with it yourself, it is in your control"

Not necessarily. The child who kept knocking my ds down in the playground was taking out his frustrations over the fact that his mum was terminally ill. Nothing she could have said would have changed that : he was angry with her for dying. It was not in her control. Fortunately, the school were on the ball and managed the situation very well.

Aw, Verity that's awful. I don't know what to say. Dd1 has just been placed on some sort of scheme for her confidence issues. It doesn't seem to be helping much with her confidence but she enjoys it and has made a few new friends who have had similar problems to her i.e being bullied, being the bully or both in dd1's case.

It's not easy when your child is accused of bullying and you actually care. It's sickening that a child you helped raise could take pleasure in causing others to cry (which is what dd1 was doing) and you wonder what mistakes you made to cause your child to think that this could be in anyway okay or fun. Although as I said earlier, the feeling of utter helplessness you get when your child is being bullied is not there.

But then when your child is the victim you don't have the huge sense of guilt and failure and shame that you get when your child is doing the bullying.

Both are equally hard to process.

To the poster who said you don't have to worry about your child commiting suicide when they are the bully, that's not strictly true, Bullying is often a symptom of something else going on in the child's life. They lash out at others to help them regain a sense of control. Dd1 was self harming and talking about how it would be better to be dead when she was bullying. She was barely 7 years old

My eldest daughter was involved in some bullying a couple of years ago and I was horrified.

She had moved to a new school and buddied up with a group of girls fairly quickly but after a few months her teacher had a word with us as the group had been excluding another girl from their games and a fair amount of name calling.

We had a talk with DD and teamed up with the school, and actually to be fair, DD was pretty ashamed of herself and gutted by her behaviour

She wasn't one of the main ringleaders, and with hindsight I think she was just grateful that a) she'd made friends fairly quickly, and b) it wasn't her on the receiving end. She's no longer involved with this particular group of girls.

Fortunately, our school is very good about bullying. Our Head is very strict about it and it gets dealt with very firmly

"the parents were spoken to"

But what were they told? What makes you think they had a remotely true description of what was going on? I can see why schools try to handle things in house, indeed they should do so, so my first assumption is that the parents simply do not know, cannot know.

Another parent approached yesterday to say DS had called her DD names & pushed the girl over. Loads of details & background, none of which I knew about before that moment & asking more questions. If coming down on DS like a tonne of bricks would work I would do it -- but it won't. I have to gently persuade him to find nicer ways to get the girl's attention. He won't quickly adopt better ways to relate to her (the same behaviour towards his male classmates just leads to giggles & boisterousness in return, so of course he thinks it's okay). And I'm not there to stamp on the behaviour the moment I see it; my control IS rather limited.

I told the mum her DD should shout at DS" "Oh she wouldn't do that, she's too afraid of getting into trouble." Well she's gotta stand up for herself, somehow, if she tolerates it quietly then the teacher will think the situation is very minor, indeed. Privately I want the mother to take her DD to Judo so at the very least DS will utterly fail to push her over.

I was horrendously bullied at school, myself, scarred for life, constant social exclusion & teasing by everyone.

It's a confusing issue for adults, let alone kids. At home, I preach self-control and non-violence because we have 2 SN kids and I have to be consistent. And yet I know there are kids who simply won't pick up any 'no' message less subtle than a shout or a push/punch, perhaps due to SN. Or they might conclude that the bullied person had 'started it' by reacting strongly. And the bullied kid may have been programmed NOT to stoop to those methods, either verbal or physical, by their parents. Where are they supposed to draw the line in standing up for themselves? How are they supposed to know this when we would all probably argue about it on another AIBU thread?

Both my DD's have been accused of bullying

DD2 has special needs. She can be very bossy, overbearing and controlling with her 'friends'. I use the word loosely, she doesn't have very close friendships because of this. She has never systematically targeted another child, nor been part of a gang of bullies. But, if playing with another child, she has to direct the play to a certain extent. When she was younger, she wanted total control over what happened. She could get shouty or a bit aggressive with other children who were confident enough to say' no, I'm not going to do this, I want to do that'.

Inevitably, she got accused of bullying one of the children. It didn't go far, I was phoned by the mother, I went to see the mother and I really felt terrible. We had a long conversation and it never went any further than just between us, but it could have done if she had been less understanding. DD2's original primary school were awful - if the mother had taken her concerns to school rather than straight to me, I doubt they would have done anything

DD1 on the other hand had started bullying another child, as in targeted her deliberatly. I don't know why, I don't think I ever will because now as an adult, DD will not talk about it. I took months to come to light. DD called her names, and hit her among other things. Afterwards, DD clamped down, and shouted and tried to hit me if i talked about it. I don't believe she bullied other children after that. She once said she was ashamed of herself, and that's all she's ever said. I can't really go into any more detail here

It really is an awful feeling hearing the word bully about your child. On the other hand, I haven't found it much easier to deal with on the other end, as DD2 has been bullied as well. Except the stigma of being the mother of a bully. It's something you can't really talk about

Also, I think it's a mistake to see bullies as all the same. And a mistake to think 'my child wouldn't do that'. Especially if they are in cliquey frienship groups, as my friends found out with their daughter

I have a teacher friend. She teaches at a girls grammar some distance from me. She asked her form class (in a PSHE lesson) to sit in a circle and did this 'swap seats if you...' game. When she said, swap if you have ever been bullied, about 2/3 moved. When she said 'swap if you ever been a bully' another 1/2 of them admitted they had bullied. Quite a few people were both victims and bullies. SHe now does that every year with a new class. The numbers are consistently the same, about 33-50% admitted to bullying others in the past every year. 33%-50% of a class are not monsters or evil. Most of it never reaches parents at all

Lilka - how did you deal with DD1 when you found out she had been bullying another child? I hear you say she clamped up etc, but what else did you as a parent do to try and stop her behaviour? Did you speak to the childs parents?

Your first scenario with DD2 sounds like how I was with my DD. I spoke to the mother and I was very understanding. I know my DD isn't a saint all the time. I wonder if I just wasn't strong enough in hitting home the message (I can be a bit meek and always try and see the other side). I feel the parent thought it wasn't a serious issue, despite being spoken to by the Head.

Thank you for sharing. I can imagine hearing your child was a bully must be dreadful. This is the main reason I started the thread. As the parent of a bullied child (whilst horrible for DD and us) when I went to the school it was always with my head held high and without shame. Whilst I wish with all my heart DD hadn't (and still is) went through what she did, I can't help think that for me it is easier to face others as the 'victim'. You get the sympathy vote. Not many people have this for bully's parents.

To those that have children that are being bullied - please help them all you can. You are their voice. You are their advocate and you can make a difference. They are relying on you.

To those that have tried to deal with it by shunning the parents of the bullied - I urge you that just a simple acknowledgement that you are 'dealing with it' will go a long way. You don't need a lot of detail.

adventureswithvoles I disagree with some of what you say. My DD is quiet and unassuming. I love her that way. I don't want her to have to shout her way out. Maybe coming down on your DS 'like a ton of bricks' would have been beneficial. That said, DD has never been subjected to physical bullying. Only exclusion and verbal. Equally as bad in my opinion.

sarge once again wise words. I will PM you later.

I might make me unpopular in saying this D0oinMeCleanin , but I think when you are doing things like ?and keep letting my dogs run in front of the little cow on the way home from school and spoil her scooting game?, you are no better than the bully and doing the opposite of helping the situation. I total understand why you would do it, but if it does make her angry then you do know who she is going to take it out on (and no I am not saying she is right in doing so)!?

I let my dog run off leash in the off leash area of the park. Her Grandmother is more than able to take the child to the leash only part (i.e. most of the park) I don't see how that makes me a bully?

And in my defense I only allow one of the dogs to go near her scooter. The other is unpredictable around unknown children and would bite her if he felt threatened by her. I'm not cruel enough to want that to happen much. He gets put back on his leash if he happens to be with us.

She doesn't seem bothered by it. It's her Gran who moans about it, the same one who explained her behaviour as girls will be girls. Well dogs will be dogs, they like to run and chase. If you don't want your child to be chased on her scooter, then take her to the play park area about 60 seconds down the way, where dogs are banned.

"She doesn't seem bothered by it. It's her Gran who moans about it, the same one who explained her behaviour as girls will be girls. Well dogs will be dogs, they like to run and chase. If you don't want your child to be chased on her scooter, then take her to the play park area about 60 seconds down the way, where dogs are banned."

No wonder dog owners get a bad name. There are no circumstances where you should let a dog chase a child on a scooter. None.