To ask if you are or have been the parent of a bully...

[Tootiredtosleep]

My DD was singled out and excluded for most of Year 3 by one girl. This girl is a born ring leader and easily manipulates the other children. DD withdrew on the basis that not being involved with the group of girls was a better option than being picked on, excluded etc.

She had quite a miserable year. We made several trips into the school. The child was spoken to, the parents were spoken to etc. things would always get better for a while then revert to the norm of excluding DD. As an adult I could see that this child was jealous. She also had a much stronger personality and by excluding DD, made life a lot nicer for herself.

Anyway, I digress. Things are gradually getting better and DD is settling down a bit.

I often think that whilst hard for me to witness and distressing for DD, how must it feel to be on the other side? It's all well and good having the school on your side and all saying great things about your DD. What is it like, however, on the other side? This girls parents are nice people. They seem like very caring parents. They never apologised for their DD's behaviour. Do you go into denial and think it must not be true or blown out of proportion?

Would love to hear it from the other side?

Have name changed and changed some details.

D0in, I'm not sure how old your DD is, but my I have bought a book for my DD, then 10, called "Bullies Bigmouths and so called friends" which gives strategies for bullied children. It has been really useful.

Seeker, as I suspected, you are talking of your experience in dealing with a child accused of bullying. I have no doubt that that was a terrible experience for you.

If I had to choose an adult life for my DC, I would choose them to have been a bully than to have been bullied. (Although, obviously, I would choose neither, if possible!)

Interesting you should say that Jandy. I often wonder if this girl behaves this way at home. Also, if she is 'learning' this behaviour. The fact that the parents never admitted she was in the wrong, or apologised speaks volumes to me. Denial.

Seeker

In my opinion, your remark about preferring to be the parent of a bullied child rather than of a bully is silly and insensitive, and indicative of a complete lack of understanding about the impact of serious and sustained bullying.

Mayqueene

I disagree.

We've not had any problem with bullying, either way, yet but as the mum of two DCs on the autistic spectrum I would point out that there a lot of such kids that haven't been diagnosed or identified. ASDs are not always obvious and when unidentified/unsupported can lead to some pretty antisocial behaviour.
Girls with ASD are often especially hard to spot as they seem to have more natural motivation to try and fit in. But they don't always get it right and can sometimes be quite manipulative and are unable to empathise or pick up when they've gone too far.

One of my kids has Pathological Demand Avoidance (an ASD that does not look at first like ASD), he appears naughty, thuggish and extremely unlikeable at times. People with PDA have an automatic 'No!' response to pretty much anything that isn't their idea and they can often get rather fixated with people (it's believed but not yet researched that many convicted stalkers may have PDA). He starts school this year and I am fully expecting trouble - my basic parenting goal is to make sure he stays out of prison.
My point is that antisocial behaviour can sometimes have hidden causes and is not just down to poor parenting.

I'm the parent of a bully. She is 8 and finally the school have decided to help back up a referral to senco (I think that is what it is called) through our GP and I hope to get some help for her and our family soon.

What an excellent x post silk

I think I can see where seeker is coming from. There is a situation in DD's school right now (fortunately she's not involved) where a boy with obvious SEN issues is repeatedly being punished for injuring other children. The parents of the victims have formed a close-knit support circle (although I have my own criticisms of the way they are handling it, but appreciate that they are just trying to protect their own children), whereas the parents of the boy are social pariahs. I don't think it's necessarily their parenting that has led to this, but they still clearly feel deep shame, can't talk to other parents at the school gate, and are very worn-down by the whole situation. Meanwhile, the other parents have each other for support and, as the OP said, have the sense of being in the right and doing what needs to be done for their children, in other words, being good parents.

My understanding of seeker's words is, for a child, it's preferable to be the bully than the victim, but as a parent (or at least a parent who acknowledges their child is a bully and tries to fix this, not one who buries their head in the sand) it's slightly easier to be the parent in the right trying to protect their child than the one having to face up to unpleasant truths about the child you've raised.

Pissydust, have you ever spoken to the parents of the child(ren) she bullied? Good that you admit it and great that the school are helping.

If this was the case in our situation I imagine I would be very understanding.

Gabor Mate everyone - look him up on Youtube and try to have some patience with the poor sound quality. My friend told me about him when we had a discussion on bullying.

Lisascat I totally agree. I do mean from a parents perspective. I know that no child would prefer to be the bully.

Detest the way the parents are dealing with it though, in your situation. I have never spoken to another parent in DDs class (just friends). I know there are other children who are victims of this girl.

I don't know which child it is mainly aimed at and I believe it is probably more than one because DD isn't violent but she is manipulative and EA with words

I moved DD to a different school last September because she had been having some problems in school and the school wouldn't help me. they basically called her a bully and allowed the other little girls mum to hurl abuse at my DH about our nasty spiteful bully of a daughter - all on school grounds.

It was a horrible time and every time I approached the school to tell them I was worried about so many different things DD does that make me feel that something underlying is happening they shot me down and said she just needs to learn to be a nicer person.

New school have identified the same issues that I have at home and we have just started the lengthy and confusing process of seeing if DD needs extra help.

I don't know any of the parents at the new school as I also work but I wouldn't feel able to explain or apologise for DD as I feel it is private now and DDs diagnosis to share if she does get one.

I was bullied horribly as a child and it still has a daily effect on the way I can socialise even now sometimes, it breaks my heart that not only Is DD making some poor child sad or scared but she is also carving a life of being hated for herself.

Ok... So if so many people find Seeker's position insensitive etc., does this mean that (those of you who have objected to her posts) - you would prefer your child to be the bully, rather than the bullied?

Really?

Pissydust. That is a story. I feel for you and your DD. I am glad you are finally getting the help you and your DD need. Hopefully you can work things out.

As the parent of a bullied child, however, I still feel an explanation or a quiet word to those being bullied may have helped. If a mother was shouting at your DH (which I don't agree with), she may have been at the end of her tether. Her child may have been suffering. Maybe she felt the school were inept at dealing with it, as you did?

I lost weight, lost many nights sleep, lost work days duevto DD being bullied. I just wish the parents had acknowledged it and apologised for the upset. It would have helped.

Possibly in some cases they are in denial. When I spoke to the bully's grandmother about what was happening and asked her to have a word, she brushed it off as girls being girls and in her words "They're nasty little buggers at times, aren't they girls? But what can you do?"

The fact that dd1's bully lives with her grandparents and not her own parents indicates that she also probably has some issues and hardships in her life, so I try to have some sympathy for her. Although not enough sympathy to call my whippet to heel when she is weaving around this girls scooter on the way home from school, after all dogs will be dogs and what can you do, eh? [childish emoticon]

I'll look that book up HandMadeTail, it sounds like it might help. We are waiting for a new term to start at the local Tai Kwondo club (next week) and she will be starting that in a hope that knowing she could defend herself if she needed to will help her confidence.

Feak, being the parents of a bullied child doesn't hold the shame of being the parents of a bully.

Of course, no one wants their child to be bullied.

Sarge. This child definitely falls into the latter group. She is a nasty piece of work. There are also children at DDs school who fall into the former (2 in her class). At all times I encourage DD to be aware that they are probably sad and she should help them if she can, or ignore thm if they are mean.

Also, how do you deal with rumour spreading bitchy types ho make DD feel so inadequate?

Also, sarge, you put into words much better than I could what this girl and her parents are like.

Doin - we have also had the girls will be girls rubbish. Complete denial.

I am sure, in retrospect, that some of the girls that bullied me at school had terrible home lives.

One was pregnant at about 15. Another used to come in with a split lip or other facial injury, from time to time. At the time, I thought this was due to fighting, but of course, it was probably a family member doing this to her.

But it wasn't the bullying of me that would have ruined their lives. And I doubt their parents got very upset about the fact that their DCs were bullies.

The parents of bullies posting here are all having a hard time trying to understand their DCs, and are desperately trying to stop them from bullying. I absolutely respect that.

I think that if a bullied child can understand that it is not their problem, but the bully's this will go a long way to helping. And if the bully comes to apologise for the bullying, this can only serve to help both parties move on with their lives.

Unfortunately I've also been on both sides here.

I was devastated when I realised that my DS was bullying another child, absolutely devastated. BUT I felt that I had at least some control over the situation and we resolved it pretty quickly.

On the other side of the fence, being the mother of a bullied child is truly gut wrenching because I felt that I had very little control and had no idea what I was sending her in to every day. The school made all the right noises but it still went on day after day until I refused to send her to school anymore. It was eventually resolved but only after many, many visits to the school, getting the police involved and the other parents, at last, recognising the situation for what it was.

Both situations are terrible but, for me, listening to my child sobbing at 3 am because she was too scared to go to school broke my heart and I believe the whole situation will have a long lasting effect on her.

The girl that bullied me was plainly jelous that my parents were nice to me, fed me well and kept me in clean clothes.

At the time she scared the shit out of me but now I look back and feel very sorry for her.

DD isn't that type of bully and I have taught her right from wrong, it is like there is a part of her that isn't able to empathize with others.

Silks post is very much what my DD is like, she finds a victim friend and then clings to them for dear life, which means she doesn't let anyone else be friends and can become EA when the friend tries to break away.

It is heartbreaking but I do really feel for the children that she puts these behaviours onto.

Not alot of parents would be supportive of what I have written, very easy to see it as an excuse for her behaviour. I don't want it to be seen as I am making excuses for her, I'm wanting some understanding and I can't expect that from parents that are emotionally involved for their childrens sake especially when I have no understanding of it myself.

Thank you for letting me use your thread to try and explain that not every bully is an unloved child who has been dragged up and learnt their behaviours from home, and believe me I lose as much sleep over my child, the bully.

Dollysdrawers sorry for your DD . Glad it is resolved.

Interesting when your DS was bullying that it was resolved quickly. However, this wasn't the case for your DD.

What was it that made it continue? Did the parents not take it on board?

Pissydust thank you for your post. I know that not every child that bullies fits the bullying stereotype. I understand what you are saying, honest I do.

I hope your DD gets the support and help she needs.