To think that people have the principles they can afford?

[Hullygully]

Do you have, or know anyone that does, principles that would absolutely not be ditched in the event of greater wealth?

yy Boffy

but political

yellowraincoat - the UK cannot afford not to have a private education sector, not a private health sector.

I think we may not discussing that because none of us understand what the hell you're saying Hullz

Is it cos your friend is "impecunious" and thus cannot afford to be less principled?

another e.g. of only some people can afford principles - all the people I went to university with who were heavily involved in save-the-planet or save-small-children charities and spent their summers building schools, were all from comfortable middle class families and could afford to spend their summers fund raising and travelling to India, and didn't have to work.

I'll try again

Said (very very poor) person has always been a great big peace and love, hate materialsim, local schools for local people, musn't fly on planes, capitalism the biggest evil ever ever, etc etc etc and I have always greatly admired said person for lovely lovely peace and love principles. Which I share but don't remotely act on because I am a big fat hypocrite.

Of late I have noticed remarks and attitudes that suggest some bitterness and resentment and make me wonder how real the principles are and whether they are not held necessity dressed up as political high ground choice.

Which has utterly shocked me.

Or am I just a bit stupid?

The more someone bangs on about their principles, the more I tend to think they only have them for spurious reasons to be honest.

Same as people who feel the need to tell you what a great/honest/lovely/generous person they are. They tend to really be the opposite.

But who can one rely on?

My moral compass is spinning wildly.

Get you now. So you suspect that your friend's principles aren't because they truly hold them, but because they can't afford not to be principled. So say, someone only using public transport because they say they're all pro saving the environment, but actually it's because they can't afford to maintain a car.

I suppose it depends.

For various reasons I'm no longer on benefits. I will still fight the corner of those who are. My principles remain the same and if there is (yet) another benefits bashing thread, I'll be there bashing the bashers.
Is that any help, Hully?
Dawndonna, somewhere left of Mr. Marx.

"necessity dressed up as political high ground"

This is the fundamental problem with lots of "principles".

"The more someone bangs on about their principles, the more I tend to think they only have them for spurious reasons to be honest.

Same as people who feel the need to tell you what a great/honest/lovely/generous person they are. They tend to really be the opposite."

Yes yes YES. The more people go on about something, GENERALLY it's because it's an issue for them. So (for e.g.) colleague always going on about how busy he is, but because I suspect he realises people know he's useless and doesn't do much.

Oh that helps Abs.

Actually I have noticed recently amongst friends and colleagues certain attitudes and opinions coming out that I would never have attributed to that person.

My hippy woo camping/freecycling friend taking a luxury holiday in Dubai.

My very well educated and intelligent friend coming out with a racist comment that would stun a Daily Mail reader.

Is it the transit of Venus?

Well, it's a tricky one, Hully, but Paul McCartney sent all four of his kids to the local comp and he definitely could have afforded to go private.

It's like creepy dudes who say stuff like "I really respect women."

Wow, really? Have a medal. And a blow job.

I am starting to wonder if these changes in people have something to do with the economy. Social engineering always dictates that the press and therefore the public become less pleasant during a serious downturn.

I am highly principled when it comes to DCs' education and believe that it is a parent's primary duty to give DCs the best possible education they can.

I have found that assuming a person's principles will be dropped when put under pressure has seldom let me down.

I'm wondering now if it's that years of righteousness and virtue have brought only greater poverty while others, less-principled, in the orbit have got richer and happier and the world seems indifferent.

Would that not be galling?

"But who can one rely on?"

Apart from moi?

I suppose you can only ever know whether or not someone's principles are genuine, or your principles are genuine, if you've been through something really trying which tests you/someone to their very limits. Which doesn't always happen.

I think some people do do what you are suggesting Hully, dress things up as principles when actually it is necessity regulating their choices.

But I don't think that is true of all things or all people.

I am thinking of all my principles, and none of them are governed by wealth. Treat people fairly, don't judge someone until you know them, have fun, spend lots of time outdoors, recycle, reuse and learn to mend things, I don't tihnk my principles are ways of disguising necessity or that I would ditch them if I had more wealth.

Had I come into enough money when the kdis were at school I would have sent them privately, even though in principle I believe in good state education for all.

I went to school with someone who was all very 'right on prinicles and smash the state'. He was from a very middle class family and now works in the financial sector.

I think some people have principles to be obtuse and try and seem like a better person.