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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should this man have been employed by a school? (sorry, long)

72 replies

merryohairy · 07/06/2012 20:01

I?m divorced with one DD, and about 18 months ago XDH announced that he wanted her to go to a CofE secondary school (he rarely goes near a church). I wasn?t too happy ? none of her friends are going there, and we aren?t religious. Wanting to find out what he?d be getting her into, I decided to attend the church that is linked to the school with XMIL (we still get on well). From the outset I was honest with them about why I was attending over coffee after the services, and said there were several questions I had about Christian faith.

One of the vicars came up to me after one of the services and said he?d heard I was new and had questions, and offered to meet to answer them. He said he?d rather meet at a coffee shop because the church was busy and we might be disturbed. At the first meeting, he came across as charming and self-deprecating; at the end of it he said he was still in training and had to submit written case studies, and asked if I?d be a subject because he was interested in my point of view.

I agreed, and several meetings followed, always outside of church. He said that he was divorced, and ?understood ordinary people?s problems?. Several invitations to go to the pub with him cropped up, and to go round to his house; as he lived alone, and I was beginning to find him creepy and weaselly, I declined. He then dropped several questions about my sex life into the conversation, along with some snide remarks about the head vicar and several members of the congregation (he?s always charming to their faces). He also said the best way to feel close to God was to have an orgasm ? it always works for him

I asked XMIL about him, and she said he had been seeing a long-term girlfriend for almost a year. At the next meeting, he announced that he was taking me to lunch as a ?surprise?, and acted really flirty, asking about the colour of my knickers and again inviting me to his house for a meal and wine (?stay as long as you like, all night if you like?). I noticed that he was watching for a reaction, as some sleazy men do when they want to shock women.

At this point I mentioned his girlfriend; at first he denied that he was seeing anyone, then admitted it but said that he couldn?t get turned on by her, followed by obscene remarks about her looks and the appearance of her genitalia. Indicating a girl of 17 or 18 at another table, he said she was more his type and started describing what he?d like to do to her. I cut him off, pointing out age difference (about 20 years) and he replied ?they?re legally adults at 16?. I told him what I thought of him and he became very angry, so I left.

I raised the issue with one of the stewards, who said that he?d tried the same with other women at the church, including an 18 year old. During one meeting, this vicar had talked about working in some kind of social care work, and said female colleagues had made allegations about his behaviour towards a female patient. He said he had been cleared, but felt he had to resign. I therefore also asked about his CRB status, but she said he was clear. She then said that another woman had submitted a written complaint, so she would ?note my concerns?.

DD secured a place at the school where her friends are going (and is now very happy there), so having seen enough of organised religion I stopped attending, and explained why to XMIL. I have just found out from XMIL that this vicar has been appointed as chaplain at the linked church school; he was interviewed but the post was not advertised externally. She said that the written complaint was dismissed because it is impossible to prove what is said in private conversations between two people, and ?it was just a bit of dirty talk, he didn?t touch anyone?. As I am beyond horrified, I asked if I could see the parish Child Protection Officer ? XMIL advised against it, saying that he is a personal friend of this vicar and always defends him.

Am I being unreasonable to think this man should not be employed by a school?

OP posts:
cricketballs · 07/06/2012 20:05

as far as I can tell from your post he hasn't done anything illegal - maybe a bit off and lecherous but nothing untoward in terms of being around young girls

Passmethecrisps · 07/06/2012 20:07

That is grim. If I were you I would be appalled. Sadly, he hasn't actually done anything to prevent employment. Or has he? (might need to read post again more carefully)

My understanding is that he is a grubby man who makes leery remarks at women. Sadly, being a mysoginistic arsehole isn't a reason not to be employed. If I have misunderstood though then let me know - I might not have picked something up.

lisaro · 07/06/2012 20:08

And you kept on seeing him? Hmm forgive my scepticism.....

lovebunny · 07/06/2012 20:11

a vicar is sleazing on you? no, he shouldn't do that. it's like teachers and uni lecturers, even if you're over 18 he has a duty of care. as you are or were seeking admission he might have (even if he didn't actually) tried to use his position to gain favours. get in touch with the bishop for your diocese.and tell him of your concerns.

merryohairy · 07/06/2012 20:12

My main concern was that the steward I spoke to said he had invited the 18 year old from the parish for a drink, and back to his house (she went for the drink, but when her mother found out she declined his invitation to go back to his house), and XMIL has noticed that several women he's tried it on with have also stopped attending church services. She's not sure how many of them have gone along with his invites, or what the outcome of them was.

OP posts:
merryohairy · 07/06/2012 20:14

lisaro, he drops the odd remark into the conversation then acts really innocent, so he kind of 'flew under my radar' for a couple of weeks. it was only afterwards when I talked it over with a friend, that the feeling of vague uneasiness became 'euugh' when I realised what he was up to.

OP posts:
lisaro · 07/06/2012 20:15

Oh ok, I can see that.

Passmethecrisps · 07/06/2012 20:16

merry report your concerns to the appropriate person within the school and to the church. Sadly, I am not sure how much difference it will make but if everyone he slimed on did the same they might get the picture.

fuckwittery · 07/06/2012 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

merryohairy · 07/06/2012 20:24

Thanks crisps, will phone bishops office.

Not sure about writing anonymously - will they take any notice?

I got to know one of the women he tried the same thing with - she won't complain because she said the church tends to counter-attack anyone who complains. She's also said they were really horrible to the woman who made the written complaint, with many of the congregation ignoring her and refusing to shake her hand at the 'peace' (unsurprisingly she stopped attending too).

OP posts:
Passmethecrisps · 07/06/2012 20:30

Merry,
I am not convinced by anonymity. Have the courage of your convictions and put your name. No name means no genuine issue to deal with.

As you aren't massively connected to the church their despicable behaviour should impact on you less.

Are you wondering what will happen about your child's school place? If so, copy your concern to the Head of Education for the local authority also. That should show everyone you won't be brow-beaten by protectionism.

Good luck!

PooPooInMyToes · 07/06/2012 20:37

no, he shouldn't do that. it's like teachers and uni lecturers, even if you're over 18 he has a duty of care. as you are or were seeking admission he might have (even if he didn't actually) tried to use his position to gain favours. get in touch with the bishop for your diocese.and tell him of your concerns.

I agree with this! You have to say something otherwise the next person may be more vulnerable.

girlgonemild · 07/06/2012 20:53

As a Christian (go to CofE) I think that this is completely outrageous behaviour.

As pp said it's nothing illegal but Church ministers are held to a much higher level of accountability than what's legal. What he has been doing and saying to you would make him ineligible for leadership at any of the Churches I have been to.

Vicars are there to serve and to lead by example not to behave like this. Do push forward with complaining perhaps to the bishop's office or a church authority above the actual church you have been going to.

Really hope you get some positive response.

lovebunny · 07/06/2012 21:18

saints preserve us! someone agreed with me...Shock

PooPooInMyToes · 07/06/2012 21:34

Lovebunny Grin You were talking sense!

lovebunny · 07/06/2012 22:38

oh, no! i'll have to watch out for that...

NonnoMum · 07/06/2012 22:46

Forget about contacting the church - contact the school. And quickly.

Sarcalogos · 07/06/2012 22:47

As a Christian I agree. You must speak to his superiors. If there is a feeling of 'old boys club/dismissing complaints' in the immediate church go further up the diocese.

In his position he should not be behaving like this, the church does not condone it- whatever a few misguided individuals might do/say/cover up. Go straight to his Bishop if necessary.

teahouse · 07/06/2012 22:49

Agreed with contacting the Bishop's office in writing and signed with as much information as you can.
This is clearly inappropriate for a man in his position and he may need some extra guidance on pastoral matters

Northernlurker · 07/06/2012 23:10

I agree - at the very least inform the school that you felt sxeually pressured by this man. Churches have a very difficult line to tread. The church should be open to all but there are plenty of people out there who abuse that. There are some people within a church - any church - who will never want to hear that btw.

NonnoMum · 07/06/2012 23:30

Actually - contact the school tomorrow - anyone in a position of responsibility who talks about 16 year olds in that way should be brought to the Head's attention.

Don't contact the school anonymously and you don't have to let your MiL know your concerns.

geegee888 · 08/06/2012 00:10

Did you make a written complaint yet? If not, I think you should. A higher standard of behaviour is expected of certain professions, eg doctors, dentists, etc, because they have access to people in vulnerable situations and occupy a position of trust, which should not be abused.

I also wonder whether his behaviour will worsen and whether someone vulnerable or very young will end up damaged because of it. Hence I would make a complaint in writing if I were you, at least there will be a record of it.

FairPhyllis · 08/06/2012 00:49

OP If you go to the following link, you will be able to click on a leaflet produced by the CofE on how to report misconduct of clergy: link.

It says that you need to address the complaint in writing to the diocesan bishop. You can't write anonymously. If there is a parish website it will probably say what diocese it is in - make sure you find the name of the diocesan bishop, not the suffragan bishops (deputies). The leaflet gives a description of the process. It will be important for you to make it clear in the complaint that he is in a position of pastoral responsibility for you because you are a member of the congregation/a parishioner. Doesn't matter if you've only been to the church a few times - priests are not supposed to make sexual advances to anyone in their congregation.

I think I agree with the advice to go directly to the bishop's office: other people you could in theory turn to are the vicar (it sounds like this chap is his curate), the churchwardens and PCC, or the local archdeacon. But if I were you I would take it to the top straightaway, as you suspect that it has been hushed up at a local level in the past. If there have been formal complaints about him in the past, the diocese will know. They will also know why he is divorced.

PLEASE report him, as he will come into contact with many vulnerable people through his work and could do this to one of them. He is trying to take advantage of the fact that you are not a cradle Anglican and won't automatically know how to deal with the situation.

susiey · 08/06/2012 07:48

You absolutely need to report this man .
I work for the c of e and my husband is training to be a priest and this mans behaviour towards you is completely inappropriate . He should not be speaking to you in such a way as a member of his congregation or parish.
If your local church aren't listening then you must take it to the bishop.
You are clearly an intelligent woman but the next lady /girl he does this to may be very vunerable and that is why it needs reporting . - especially as he has just got this chaplaincy in a school.

horseygeorgie · 08/06/2012 08:28

This is disturbing - Make sure you raise you concerns with the Bishops office. A man like this should not be working in the church.