Two incidents with family WIBU?

[mallorykane]

Incident number one

My dsis cannot have children. She rarely sees mine because it hurts her too much and I am very understanding about this. I am a lone parent, one of my children is disabled. She does not really like me talking about them and she does not have any kind of relationship with them. Until this weekend she had not seen them in a year. We were out on Sat night. I was tired and started to flag around 11.00 pm. She asked me what was wrong and I said I was a bit tired. This the convo that followed:

Dsis: (sharply) Why are you tired fgs?! its only early!"

Me: "I always flag about now, the kids really wear me out"

Dsis: Well they are not even here! They are taken care of fgs! How can they be tiring you out when they are not even here???!

Me: "You don't understand, its just the long term relentlessness of it all......." I was not allowed to finish

Dsis: "No I don't understand and I NEVER BLOODY WELL WILL BECAUSE I CANT HAVE KIDS CAN I? CAN I?

I just looked at her and did not reply and then changed the subject. While I understand how difficult is for her, I am not sure that I should have apologised for what I said or if I said anything wrong at all. I think I was expected to though as she has been slightly frosty with me ever since.

Incident Number Two.

Parents: Mallory give your dog your pudding bowl to lick out (had some of a honey based dessert left in it).

Me: No I dont like him having sweet things as he only has a few teeth left now (very old dog) and the vet told me not to.

Parents: (To dog) Do you want the pudding bowl

Me: Please do not give dog the pudding bowl its bad for his teeth

Parents: Its only honey, honey doesnt have sugar in it! (shouting)

Me: How does honey not have sugar in it?

Parents: FGS keep your hair on!!!!

Me: I am fine, I just do not want my dog to have a sweet item to eat

Massive sulks for rest of evening from parents and still not talking to me now, three days later.

I am laughing reading this back to myself, the one about the honey I mean. But this is my family. Very quick to take offence and I usually apologise. On these two occasions for some reason I felt quite strong and I decided not to. I really did not feel I did anything wrong. But I will leave it with you MN to decide. Was I being unreasonable here?

Sorry its so long, I kept it as brief as I could.

I'd just stop contacting your Sister until she contacts you.

You are making huge efforts to understand how she feels, seems she doesn't give a shit how you feel.

Your DCs are a big part of your life, it's bloody cheeky of her to think you should pretend they don't exsit because she doesn't want them too.

I am quite horrified at the lack of empathy some of you have.

It's easy to prescribe how other people should behave when you have everything they've ever dreamed of (not you OP).

Somebody somewhere will always have something someone else cant have, the thing we all have though is a choice in how we treat each other. I suspect the sisters 'pain' is effecting everybody and every relationship she has or will have, now thats the shame in her situation.

Having empathy shown to you is a great thing, but it is a two way street.

This isn't a 4x4 though Guilty, it's lifelong infertility.

Of course it's a two way street. Of course the sister COULD be handling it better. But she isn't able to at the moment. That's all i'm saying.

Anyway. i'm off now.

'I am quite horrified at the lack of empathy some of you have.

It's easy to prescribe how other people should behave when you have everything they've ever dreamed of (not you OP).'

Well, I dreamed of having two perfect children, but one of them arrived with a SN.
Which wasn't really what I'd dreamed of.
So I really think that saying the sister needs help from professionals as she's unable to cope with her infertility and it appears to be damaging her life and her relationships is a reasonable attitude. She's taking out her pain and anger on those around her, which may be satisfying in the short-term but is harmful in the long term.

The dog one is daft.

The worst thing you can say to people who would love to have kids but can't for whatever reason is anything along the lines of "you don't understand because you don't have kids". I can understand why that riled her. I am trying (unsuccessfully) to have children. I can take being around other people's children but it does hurt sometimes. What I can't abide is being told by someone with kids that I couldn't possibly understand how tough it is to be a parent when I would give anything in the world to be in that person's shoes.

4x4? yes she could be handling it better, it goes hand in hand with people not enabling her behaviour, Casserole I dont want to assume anthing but it seems this thread might have touched a nerve, but I will say that having lost two dc of my own, doesnt entitle me to go around being angry and bitter at people who had live children at the time. I agree the sister does need help, but she wont realise this till someone tells her, her behaviour is getting out of hand.

I have experience of someone having this kind of attitude for nearly 60yrs of their life, and when the mother died, it was her sister who was there for her at the time of a huge health problem, before that they barely spoke because of her previous sense of blame entitlement and bitterness.

OP genuinly sorry your having this put on you, especially when you have a child with special needs as well, but you arent resposible for their behaviour.

xx GP

I did explain further up thread that when I said "you don't understand" I wasn't referring to her not understanding because she doesnt have kids but the fact that she was cutting me off and not understanding what I was trying to say at that moment.

Also given the fact that I have a child with multiple SN that whenever I have tried to talk to her about it I am always met with "mmm", "mmm", "mmm" followed by change of subject and no particular interest shown I can be forgiven for a momentary lapse in tact.

It took me a year to concieve dd, after concieving ds with ease. I found it tough. I know its nothing like being permanently infertile but I have a small inkling of what it must be like.

I kind of think that you can only give so much to people, only give so much understanding and tact etc before it begins to cost too much to your own peace of mind. I am finding myself getting quite annoyed about her lack of relationship with my dc, they don't deserve it. I can't show it though and haven't but her rant at the weekend has brought it to the fore. It would not have if she hadn't said what she said, we would still be carrying on as normal I guess, with my kids not really being part of my relationship with her but now I feel upset about it because I have tried so hard to be understanding and tactful and still got shouted at.

Still heard nothing from any of them so I guess thats me not being spoken to for a good few months. I am thinking of emailing my parents actually as I can't speak to them, they just shout and my Mum cries and gives one word answers and plays the victim and I am always the villain.

As it stands these are the rules of these two incidents.

1. you can't talk about your kids or not be on your guard and say the right thing as I percieve it or I will have a tantrum.

1. You don't have any right to decided what your dog does or does not get to eat, even if its bad for him or we will have a tantrum and not talk to you anymore.

Thats how it seems to me atm and I feel a bit pissed off about it quite frankly.

Thanks everyone who is taking the time to think about this and give me great advice and insight.

It seems there is a lot of emotional blackmail going on here and you are being caught up in it OP. I sometimes think maybe people just let it all hang out, so to speak with their immediate families as they feel safe from repurcussion, but then make an effort to be civilised in the not so 'unconditionally loving' outside world where they would probably get a slap so you being family just get the brunt of it. But as others have said you dont need to put up with it. i would lay off contacting either party for a while, a contemptuous silence will maybe make them think it's not always them that is owed an apology but you

Not really connected but similar situation. I have a good friend who had a mastectomy about four years ago. If any of us in our group ever dared to moan about anything she would get quite bolshie with us. For the first couple of years we all let her get away with it as she had been through so much and we thought really it did us good sometimes iyswim to be told to get a grip when feeling sorry for ourselves about our comparatively trivial problems.

But after four years it has come to a head at a mutual friends party as we have all had enough of it now. I happened to say how fed up I was about not being able to get into most of my clothes and not being able to lose the half a stone or so l have gained in last few years. Straight away she was in my face - l mean really eyeball to eyeball and glaring - hissing at me "I would still quite like to have two tits but there you go". I'm afraid the friend whose house it was jumped in and told her she was out of order and whilst we all appreciated what a terrible thing had happened to her we were all quite sick of having to walk on eggshells or dare to ever complain about anything. She left very angry and upset I'm afraid and is refusing to speak to any of us at the moment which is a shame but it did need to be said.

Look, infertility is miserable, so is cancer, so is bereavement, so is having a loved one murdered. But none of these things are a licence to be a total PITA to everyone around you.
Bottom line is, (whatever your pain) tough shit, learn to suck it up - or be prepared for everyone to withdraw from you because they can';t stand any more of your whining, self-pity and aggression.

i agree SGB but if you have cancer most people would avoid telling you how healthy they are etc. the comparision goes so far....

DP & i dont have DCs yet, i avoid my B&SIL when i would love to be involved with DN but his parents were vvvvv self obsessed before he was born & now they have actually created the Special One, they frequently achive unsurpassed levels of self obsessed, and we are mere mortals & it is pointed out to us frequently.

i wish them well but away from me please!

I agree 100% with what ComposHat said.

mallorykane, the dynamic in your family is WAY off kilter. Your sister IS using her infertility as a weapon against you, and sounds seethingly jealous of you.

Your parents too sound controlling. I'd not be surprised if you have been in an abusive relationship, generally that is what this kind of dynamic grooms us for.

Trust your instincts, YANBU, far from it and i think it's about time you started telling some people some home truths.

Anyone who denied my DC would get a mouthful from me and then that would be IT.

Imagine the harm this ignoring business will do to the self esteem of your DC?

I was discussing asserting yourself with my sis recently. She is constantly put down by her mil. And instead of asserting herself says things in a pleading, persuasive way to her eg I've always made time to enjoy your visits but you don't seem to appreciate it etc etc. This cuts no ice. I said next time she is spiteful say to her (loudly) ' FFS Maisie why do I waste my time with you when you take every opportunity to be nasty' and walk out slamming the door behind you.
I'm sure that this would make mil v cautious in future and stop the harping.
However, we decided that a better option would be to say firmly ' I have no time for your petty bickering/criticism, Maisie' and walk out closing the door quietly behind you. (by doing that you dont' get into an argument and have won).
If you snap someone's head off they will avoid crossing you in future so you don't have to deal with these repetitive annoyances which cause rising blood pressure and repressed stress in you but satisfaction and reward for them (because they have had the effect on you that they were aiming for (distress/anger).

missed a )

IMO your sister actually deliberately pushed you into talking about the children so that she could have a go at you.. she knew where the conversation would go when she pressed you on WHY you were tired...

if it was me then I'ld ask her why she asks when the answer would clearly be child related, if children weren't to be mentioned?

Tilly: Sometimes a person either has cancer or has lost a loved one to cancer, but also knows someone who has been cured of cancer. Should the person who has been cured have to pretend to be dead to appease the unhappy one? One person's misfortune is not the fault of someone else who has been luckier. While feelings of rage and self-pity are understandable when your life is shit, you don't get to dump those feelings all over other people all the time and expect them to put up with it.

Uhg at letting a dog eat out of a human bowl.

SGB - i agree with your main point about not getting to dump over other people just because life is hard.

DP & i dont have children yet and i am in my late thirties. we hope to. i have friends who are great & treat me normally. i also have a B&SIL who act like we are lesser beings for not having DCs & have told me 'you & [DP] wont be having DCs' even though they know we'd like to & there is no reason to think we cannot other than the obvious risk of my age.

i dont like being expected to revolve around them, not being equal people, so we avoid them, which they take offense to. i am sure they are oblivious to how they treat us and would describe it as we show no interest in DN, when its not the child, its the parents.

i am sure there are cases like the OPs where it is one sided, but generally i think these things are more complex.

I agree with SGB - there is only so far you can go with the competitive sadding "I'm the only one entitled to feel shit about anything" attitude. It's like people who come onto "My mother is driving me crazy!" threads and say "well at least you still have a mother, mine died and I'd give anything to have her back even if she was an abusive bitch when she was alive" (paraphrasing wildly)

You weren't rubbing her nose in anything. You have been more than careful of her feelings and she is still feeling entitled to have a go at you - so since you can't win anyway, sod it. Stop trying so hard. Let her come to you now, if she can be bothered.

With your parents - too much pettiness going on there as well. Your sister has learnt her behaviour from them - and you are the one copping the fall out from that too. Again, let them come to you. Why are you emailing them? They're not going to accept anything short of a grovelling apology, so why bother?

It's hard when it's your own family but they've just got away with this petty awful behaviour for too bloody long - time to stand up for you and your own, I think, and show them that they need to treat you with a bit of respect if that's what they want in return.

How long is your sister going to keep this up? In 10 years time when your kids say "Why do we never see Aunty X?" what are you going to say?

I can see why you're pissed off. Being a lone parent is really hard and being a lone parent of a child with SN must be extremely demanding and tiring. I'm sure you could do with a bit of love and support from your family, as well as acknowledgement of what a good job you're doing, rather than being made to feel bad for having children or alternatively stupid for not giving your dog your pudding bowl. (Which is disgusting, by the way - you shouldn't feed dogs from the table anyway.)

Have you got anybody in your life who's a bit more helpful?

YANBU about either. I'm sorry for your sister but like you say, she cannot understand - it's not a personal insult or a way of causing her pain just a fact that you were entitled to state given she had started attacking you!

Honey thing is mental. It's supposedly the only natural, sterile, foodstuff due to the sugar content. I expect someone will come on and say that's an urban myth, but it doesn't change the fact that it's rammed full of the stuff.

Have you actually tried talking to your sister about this directly and clearing the air? It seems to me like there is a lot of resentment festering on both sides and you both need to get out in the open whatever is bothering you and find a way you can resolve these issues. At the moment you are both obviously being bothered by something the other is doing but you're both just letting it fester.

She is being unreasonable about not seeing your children which you need to bring up with her. But on the flip side the two things you've brought up that she has been unreasonable over are the children making you tired and one child's SN. I'm wondering if perhaps (rightly or wrongly) your sister has a perception that you are moaning to her about your children and how hard it is and she finds this hurtful as she can't have any.

Worth thinking about, I know when I was struggling to conceive I might have found the same things difficult to hear. Perhaps if you actually talk about it to each other you might get to the bottom of this as it may be that whilst you don't know what you're doing that bothers her she may have no idea that her attitude towards your children is bothering you. If you actually bring it into the open you may be able to resolve it.

'i agree SGB but if you have cancer most people would avoid telling you how healthy they are etc. the comparision goes so far....'

No, instead plenty of them tell you about everyone they know who's died of cancer.

I completely agree with SGB.

My child has cancer, a rare form of adult leukaemia with a shit poor survival rate.

It's not a license to treat people badly over and over again because she and we are in pain.

We have to suck it up and be grown ups.

i think you need to deal with the original issue and not use it as an excuse to hurt others but you dont have to just suck up other people's responses to your issue.

Well, if people are being rude to you because of your illness/bereavement/issue then that's one thing, but sufferers feeling entitled to be horrible, attention-seeking, self-pitying and expect everyone else to tiptoe round them and prioritize them, that's another.