Two incidents with family WIBU?

[mallorykane]

Incident number one

My dsis cannot have children. She rarely sees mine because it hurts her too much and I am very understanding about this. I am a lone parent, one of my children is disabled. She does not really like me talking about them and she does not have any kind of relationship with them. Until this weekend she had not seen them in a year. We were out on Sat night. I was tired and started to flag around 11.00 pm. She asked me what was wrong and I said I was a bit tired. This the convo that followed:

Dsis: (sharply) Why are you tired fgs?! its only early!"

Me: "I always flag about now, the kids really wear me out"

Dsis: Well they are not even here! They are taken care of fgs! How can they be tiring you out when they are not even here???!

Me: "You don't understand, its just the long term relentlessness of it all......." I was not allowed to finish

Dsis: "No I don't understand and I NEVER BLOODY WELL WILL BECAUSE I CANT HAVE KIDS CAN I? CAN I?

I just looked at her and did not reply and then changed the subject. While I understand how difficult is for her, I am not sure that I should have apologised for what I said or if I said anything wrong at all. I think I was expected to though as she has been slightly frosty with me ever since.

Incident Number Two.

Parents: Mallory give your dog your pudding bowl to lick out (had some of a honey based dessert left in it).

Me: No I dont like him having sweet things as he only has a few teeth left now (very old dog) and the vet told me not to.

Parents: (To dog) Do you want the pudding bowl

Me: Please do not give dog the pudding bowl its bad for his teeth

Parents: Its only honey, honey doesnt have sugar in it! (shouting)

Me: How does honey not have sugar in it?

Parents: FGS keep your hair on!!!!

Me: I am fine, I just do not want my dog to have a sweet item to eat

Massive sulks for rest of evening from parents and still not talking to me now, three days later.

I am laughing reading this back to myself, the one about the honey I mean. But this is my family. Very quick to take offence and I usually apologise. On these two occasions for some reason I felt quite strong and I decided not to. I really did not feel I did anything wrong. But I will leave it with you MN to decide. Was I being unreasonable here?

Sorry its so long, I kept it as brief as I could.

Infertility is one of the hardest things to deal with. I can't even begin to describe the pain I deal with on a daily basis and unless you have experienced it too you can't ever truly understand. Most of the time I can put a fake smile on and be part of my friends' joy but sometimes I just have to shut myself away and just cry. It's a self preservation thing. People can pretend they understand but they don't. We are bombarded daily with babies. I ended up taking myself off Facebook for example because if i had seen one more baby picture or comment like 'I love being a mummy. It's the best feeling in the world.' I couldn't cope with it. People throw out comments like counselling and adoption like they are easy solutions. They aren't. I can't adopt and no amount of counselling will bring me a child or take away the heartache I feel everyday. I'm not saying your sister was behaving correctly but everyone deals with things differently and like me she clearly can't cope with infertility. You can never understand how she feels so please dont judge her. Give her time and hopefully she will come round to loving your children but the agony she feels is unlikely to ever go away.

I think your Dsis needs to get some professional help. I have been an Aunt since I was 8 years old.

I had fertility problems and was married 10 years before I had my first DS. However I never begrudged anyone else their DCs. I just loved children. They didn't necessarily have to be mine.

I was always "borrowing" or babysitting someone elses DC. First of all family and then when my friends started having babies.

I knitted and sewed for all of them.

Maybe I am a bit strange, but I really feel that our children are only ours for a very short time and then they start their own journey.

If we don't have our own DC than we can enjoy the journey with close relatives and friends.

The nine months you carry a child is really overrated in the grand scheme of things.

alphabite, the sister is going to end up driving everyone who loves her wither into a state of non-communication or rejection. How would you go about helping her?
My first thought was counselling before the corrosion she's experiencing destroys everything else in her life.

YANBU on either incident and your family are awful. Disrespectful is the word that comes to mind.

I think that YWNBU at all.

I think your sister needs a sharp reality check, tbh - she can't have DC of her own, that's terribly sad but she has blood relations in your DC that she can't bear to be around? How is that helping? She needs professional help, and possibly for you to stop pussyfooting around her so much. There is no need for her to fly off the handle at you because of you being tired, FGS! That's such an over-reaction.

As for your parents and the dog - they sound like the sort of people who would feed iced buns to coeliac children and diabetics - totally uncaring of the dog's health in this instance.

I think you might need to start being a little more assertive with your family members for your own future self-preservation - let them know they can't just tromp all over you and your feelings, that you are as deserving of care and respect as they seem to feel they are.

YANBU on both counts. For all the many reasons already given.

OP I feel for you. Families: Can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em.

My family is a bit similar, in that I feel at times as if I'm walking around on eggshells trying to avoid giving offence for the most trivial thing.

I agree with composhat.

Benji that's a very sane & sensible answer you've given.

I was single for years after a long-term relationship ended and assumed I had missed the boat as far as having children was concerned - what kept me going during that period was my bond with my nephews.

I am their only aunt so it meant everything to me to be a part of their childhood. To have missed that would have been to cut myself off from some of the happiest times I've ever had.

YANBU.
Please do not apologuise to any of them.

They should be telling you they are sorry.
Your sister needs professional help, she sounds unstable. Don't know why she thinks she'd be a good mother if she can't even love the children in her own family.

''Don't know why she thinks she'd be a good mother if she can't even love the children in her own family.''

Oh my goodness. The poor girl is struggling with something that very few people understand. That doesn't mean she'd be a poor mother.

The comments that make people like me even madder are the ones like 'We tried for 10 years before we had DS' etc etc. Some people like me can not have children full stop. No 10 years wait. Just never. Imagine lying in your bed at 80 years old, never having had the one thing you always wanted while everyone around you is beginning to have great grandchildren.

Back to the OP, in terms of supporting your sis give her some space and she may come back and apologise for shouting at you. Just leave her to it for now.

I've been in your sisters position and she needs to stop making everything about her. She can't have her own children, you can't change that and seem to be very understanding, on the other hand she needs to be understanding of your situation.
She has made the choice of not having a relationship with your children and that is very sad, she could be supportive and helpful and enjoy a wonderful relationship with them.
When I was dealing with infertility in my first marriage we had close friends who had three children, two were diagnosed with a genetic. life limiting condition and required a great deal of support. It was a lifeline for me being able to have a very special relationship with the children and that helped filled the gap.

I have since remarried and have two children, one is disabled. I really feel for you not having any support from your sister and being expected to tiptoe around her.

As for your parents - stick to your guns. Your house your rules.

I don't think she will apologise to be honest. She has always been a bit like this and unless you round on her and tell her exactly what is wrong with her behaviour she will never admit it and even then will justify and excuse herself endlessly. She is about as good at apologising as my parents are ie not at all! This is what I worry about. As they will never apologise for most of my life I tend to. I suppose I have this deep rooted belief that I must always be the problem and I tend to believe that in ALL my interpersonal relationships to be honest. My Mum is a bit better to be fair and will on occasion apologise willingly but my Dad and Sister, never.

I have been thinking a lot about this. My sister has seen my dd about twice in three years. Thats fine but I make a lot of effort to see and contact my sister without my kids and its not always easy but she never does with me, ever. Its always me going to see her, texting her, calling her and I am not sure it is ALL about me having kids and her not being able to.

To be fair to my parents while they can be a bit of a PITA, the support they offer me practically, financially, listening to me banging on about my problems is pretty massive. They just seem to be incapable of seeing me as an adult. I had similar issues when my kids were little and actually had to cut them off for a while because they were being quite mean to my kids in the name of discipline.

I don't know, it all goes a lot deeper than you realise doesnt it? These things always do.

Your sister's infertility is not your fault or your problem and you don't need to keep atoning for it. There are worse things that can happen to a person than infertility, and they don't get to dictate how the world is just so that they aren't reminded of their sadness. You say that you are always contacting your sister and she doesn't ever contact you - why are you letting her punish you like this? Have you considered just not contacting her?

Typical MN over reaction re. parents.

They're just being annoying parents - in that way that parents do. They're not bullies, they're not taking advantage, you shouldn't cut them out of your life....it's just a funny, irritating, family moment.

Re. sister - i feel sorry for her. Cut her some slack

Just for clarity, does the dog ever say "no" when they offer him food ?

" No sugar in honey ". Sorry - I know they're your parents, but they are also idiots. Ignore them.

Your life is quite stressful as it is and they are adding to it.

Your sister if she doesnt get some help soon will drown in her own vat
of bile and bitterness, your parents are standing by and watching her drown.

I think you need to distance yourself from them emotionally, to protect yourself and let them get on with it. You are not the enemy but are treated as such, it is much easier to treat you like this, than to look at their own issues, smile be polite but dont internalise their crap and believe you are anything less than fucking fabulous

The OP's sister is in PAIN. Unending, daily PAIN. Maybe some of you would deal with it better. Maybe some of you ARE dealing with it better. But she is in PAIN, people. Cut her some slack, some of you. Especially you, iscream.

OP I don't think you were unreasonable in either scenario. I hope at some point your sister can find some peace, or some help to find some. It sounds to me like you're doing the best you can to respect her pain and still maintain a relationship with her, which can't be easy for either of you and I applaud you for it.

Thank you Casserole. You said what I wanted to say but far more eloquently!
A very sensible post as opposed to my ramblings.

Whilst I accept the sister is in pain albeit from the comfortable position of being a mother and grandmother myself so can only try and imagine and from observing my dsis in law having a breakdown because of her infertility - I still think she is in the wrong (sorry and all that). Sorry again but Casserole I do think Iscream has a point. Children learn by example and if DSIS of OP were ever to have children it would not be a very good example to set them to be unable to be happy for people (or at very least not resentful or jealous of them) because they have something you havent. Because I believe that particuliar personality trait of her dsis's would still be present in other circumstances even if she didnt have her infertility to deal with. As has been pointed out many other people have this particuliar sadness to deal with but manage to not lay blame or resentment on others.

Is your sister always like this or just with baby/child/ parenting related conversations? I agree though she needs some help - 50% of the population are children, she's going to have to accept they excist at some point.

It must be truely awful for her but actually she is denying herself the oppotunity to have a close bond with a child(ren).

The honey - WTAF? Why oh why do parents insist on trying to make decisions for their grown up children and not accepting they have their own minds.

Can I book my place on the shopping trip bus?

The other day when trussing my DS up in a suit of armour knee and wrist pads for roller blading my uncle was laughing about how we didn't have all this as kids. My sister then decided to make a rude comment about trying to over parent and being over protective. She was not happy when I pointed out the knee pads and wrists guards were what she bought him with his skateboard. and this is the girl who has let me cuddle 7mo DN twice in 7 months in case he cries! Oh though maybe I should be grateful for the stoney silence she gave me the rest of the afternoon!

I wasn't able to have biological children - have two awesome adopted ones now - and I second everything people have said about how bloody awful infertility is. Certainly times when I would LIKE to have exploded like that. Usually when people told me how 'good for me' it would be to visit their newborns ...
On the other hand, with friends who I could see were thinking about the situation and not shoving their kids/pregnancies up my nose indiscriminately, it was easier to at least take a polite interest in their families (I won't claim to have managed more than that).
It sounds to me as though you are very much in the second category, and are doing what you can to make this horrible situation easier for her. Seems to me that it's not unreasonable to expect her in return to accept that you have kids, will occasionally want to mention them, and perhaps even for her to take a degree of interest in them.

your sister has been allowed to wallow

Your sister is making herself unhappy, and damaging her relationship with you.

Try not apologising for a while (unless you really think you are in the wrong), and I'd recommend the book "A Woman in Your Own Right". It's a bit old, but a good guide to assertiveness.

And I agree with what ProvincialLady said.