about my SIL?

[Lexiesgirl]

I posted about this on WWYD before, but I think its more an AIBU

My DB and SIL have been married a year, they have a young DS and baby DD. I adore my DNephew but haven't really had an opportunity to bond with my DNiece (have only seen her a few times). Over the years I have seen my nephew loads and have helped out when my DB has been so strapped for cash he couldn't afford to by DN new clothes etc.

However my SIL has always been a bit... well, odd. I think she has severe PND and has never let anyone spend time alone with the DNs - by which I mean me and DG's aren't even allowed to take him into a different room in the house where she can't see him, let alone take him to the park or out for the day Obviously this has been really upsetting for our parents, who are almost at the end of their tether. When my parents visit they aren't even offered the baby to hold after being there for several hours. DB won't confront SIL on these issues and seems to think that they are not too extreme (even though he isn't allowed to be on his own with his children!)

I had my DD 5 months ago, DB and SIL's first niece or nephew. It took DB 6 weeks to visit, and he came on his own. I never got a card from them. Now I understand with his own young family DB couldn't drop everything and come over but he did use to drive almost past our house on the way too and from work. The first time he was supposed to come he actually forgot! He has now seen his niece a few times and has been very loving with her, and he brings over clothes DNiece has grown out of, which is really kind of him. But he has to sneak the clothes out of the house as SIL doesn't want to/doesn't think of passing them over. Not that that's bad on its own, really, its just with everything else that it adds up.

What really makes it bad to me is that DM found out last week that SIL has not asked a single question about DD over the entire 5 months, even when DB has been to see her - basically, she has never mentioned her name or acknowledge that she exists.

I don't drive so it isn't possible for me to get to DB's on my own steam, but I should be heading over there with my parents quite soon. DM is adamant that if SIL doesn't acknowledge my DD or doesn't ask for a quick cuddle (we suspect this might happen as it would mean SIL putting her own DD down for a minute) then she is cutting ties with SIL and will only see DB and the kids on their own. I'm not sure that I blame her.

SIL's birthday is coming up very soon. Normally I would buy a present but I don't even feel like sending her a card or a text - though I know this will be seen as a huge slight. DB had a massive go at our parents for not sending a card when they got engaged (we're not really a card family on those occasions, so I don't know where he got that idea from).

I'm starting to stew over this. I don't mind so much for DD as she has other uncles and aunts on my DP's side who dote on her and plenty of our friends who are 'aunts' and 'uncles'. AIBU unreasonable not to acknowledge her birthday?

(Sorry, this turned out longer than I meant!)

I wouldn't take SIL's lack of interest as a personal insult. She obviously has problems. I would be horrified if I were OP and people in my family were falling out over her lack of interest.

For the sake of family support, especially to the DB, I would try hard to paper over the cracks.

I feel dreadfully sorry for your poor DNephew (and DNeice, but she's too little to worry about for now) - this behaviour from SIL will damage him for life if not checked.

I think in your position I would be going all out to persuade your DB to face up to the situation.

Clearly that will involve first not alienating him, so I would definitely send a birthday card and gift to your SIL and get your DM to wind her neck in if you can.

Next I would talk to a HCP - probably a HV if you have one you trust, otherwise I might even be prepared to pay to spend an hour talking to a mental health specialist - to get a professional opinion specifically on how your DNs will be damaged by your SIL's attitude. I wouldn't focus on why she behaves as she does, because no-one can tell you - I would stick strictly to the effect on the DNs.

Finally, I would gather all the evidence together, and arrange a loving and non-confrontational "intervention" with DB. If he doesn't want to acknowledge depression as a possibility then don't go near that topic. Again, focus exclusively on the DNs and do not even mention why SIL behaves as she does.

Could you find an excuse to contact your SILs parents? They must be as saddened by this as your side of the family is and also want to intervene. If you don't have their contact details, pretend your organising a surprise event for DB and call SIL to get their email.

And FWIW I would be bitterly hurt if a family member hadn't acknowledged the births of my DSs (assuming that that's actually true - it's a bit too Chinese whispers to rely on IMO). But I think it's a side issue - don't let it detract from the real issue of your DNs.

Send a card, don't put any emotional effort into it. You cannot change them, its sad but turn your thoughts and feelings towards those who are worth it.

I know the situation is hurtful to your parents, but this woman sounds a little 'cornered' by your family - you discussing with your brother that she didn't ask after your dc, your db bringing out clothes secretly - that is really awful if it is true (say if they have another baby?!)

Your db may be not understanding of her if he thinks its all down to an engagement card - maybe she doesn't feel accepted by your family and that was a sort of symbol of it. If she could read your post, I'm sure she'd feel even worse. Paranoia about your dc's safety can be a real sign of depression, and as others have said, rather than condemning her as a problem maybe try to be supportive, and certainly encourage your db to behave a bit better!

Some people find it difficult to relate to their ILs - on the one hand, you seem to feel you have the 'rights' typical within a family - access to her dcs etc but on the other hand you are not exactly being sisterly to her (in the best sense of that word). The idea of cutting her off is a bit self-centered tbh - and definitely would escalate things

The thing is that she´s your SIl, not sister, there´s not a long established relationship.

Maybe she "tolerates" you all for your brothers sake rather than really liking any of you.

She´s not making as much fuss of her niece as you chose to make over yours-her decision-but as long as your brother is as involved as he wants to be, surely that´s something?

I don´t have the relationship with my BIl that I do with my sister.

I never ask to hold other people's babies,nthey might feel weird about it (for whatever reason) and tbh it rarely occurs to me. Sometimes if a new mum is busy with toddler I might walk the baby round if it's crying but only to help out. I am normally too busy wrestling and pinning down my active children to be sitting having baby cuddles worrying about DS poking it in the eye. yABu actually.

I think some ILs think that as long as their DH or DW shows a keen interest in their (blood) family members life, then that counts as if their whole family was showing an interest IYSWIM!

For example, my SIL (DH's sister) would ring DH up and ask how our DCs are getting on. She wouldn't speak to me (unless DH was out) because her preference would be to speak to her brother (although we get on very well), and probably it would always be her who rang her DB rather than her DH (BIL)!

In the same way, my DSis had a baby a few months ago. I've been to see my DN a few times (DSis does not live locally) but DH has yet to see her, as he is usually at work when we go, or I leave our DCs with him so as not to overwhelm DN and DSis with a full on visit. DH hasn't asked much about DN (he is of the 'she's just a baby, same as any other' variety!). He will see DN when DSis visits us next, or at the next big family gathering. None of this has any bearing on whether he likes DSis or not (he does FWIW!).

That said, your SILs behaviour does sound off re., not leaving the DCs. Are you sure there is no other reason for this (there are LOTS of threads on MN from people who don't trust their ILs with their DCs for many different reasons!).

diddl explained it much better than me

I also think it sounds odd about not wanting to leave the room or send her son to school, though.

Didn´t ever want to leave mine with ILs though, as I didn´t have confidence in them.

Cinnabar, thanks for that advice - I do have a HV I get on well with here so I will ask her advice. Its is very difficult to know how to approach the issue as DB is generally ignoring it but I will ask for advice. As people have mentioned, we're all very worried about the effect this has on DNephew - he has never socialised with other children and at his age, facing school soon, this can't be healthy, regardless of whether SIL feels comfortable leaving him alone with either her family or our family.

Understand why you're miserable about it. It sounds like rubbish behaviour from your SIL. However I think you know she's going to blow it in front of you and your mum. Feels a bit like she's been set up to fail, which is pointless and not very nice when she's outnumbered, regardless of how much she deserves it.

My PIL are not even allowed to see my baby (very long story and a sad one). They would probably jump at the chance to hang out with my DD in the same room, even if I wasn't offering her up for a cuddle. (Also bear in mind lots of babies don't like being handed round, especially if it doesn't happen often - I'm not precious about DD but she would go beserk). Your mum should be grateful she can know and spend time with her grandchildrer. If she's at the end of her tether about not being able to go see the ducks, it's because she's working herself up into a lather (understandable but still childish). Reality rarely matches the dream. Your mum can't change your SIL but she can do her grandchildren a lot of harm by ostracising the woman, flouncing about (which will stress out your DB, who can clearly do nothing) and demanding your DB to take sides. Sounds like she's raring to go and do this but it is so selfish when your DB has a tough road to walk. And he has.

The thing that pushes all this into another stratosphere of meanness is that there's probably something wrong with your SIL and you and your mum both know this is probably the case.

If your mum feels so strongly about it, why don't your parents write a letter, putting forward their views and asking for advice on how to play a supportive role in their grandchildren's lives. If your mum is so angry at this point that she could not honestly do that, then I think she should back off until she's cooled down. You sound like you're encouraging her. Maybe put it off the agenda for a while.

I know everyone is right about DM's 'test' - she probably is setting her up to fail so that she can spark the confrontation she has been looking for for a while. Aaargh. How to stop her when she's raring to go? DDad and I keep trying to point out to her that it isn't personal to her especially, but she really struggles to understand that.

I can also see how this looks like it is stepping over in to meanness. I honestly didn't mean it to but can see how it comes across. It is hard sometimes not to judge certain situations by your own standards, which I can see I've definitely been guilty of (the cuddling and the clothes). I think because DB in particular won't really acknowledge that SIL is poorly that we do all tend to forget that sometimes and react as if she is behaving like this purely because she wants to. Which is wrong.

Hopefully one day DB and SIL will realise that she is struggling and in which case we can support them. Until then I think it looks as though the best course is to keep the peace, be friendly, but probably take a bit of a step back for my own sanity as I am expecting things that won't happen and that is (unnecessarily) upsetting me.

I don't think you sounded mean, OP. It sounded to meas if your mum was winding you up, but you came across as confused and puzzled about everything, rather than mean.

FWIW, I think you are doing all you can, from what you've said.

I think cutting ties with her if she doesn't hold your baby is a bit extreme.

Why are yous so desperate to take her into a separate room? I can't think of any reason why I'd need to take my relatives dc into a separate room when I visit

But not letting her dh take his dc on their own is quite worrying. If she is ill could cutting ties not make her worse rather than offering support? I'd try and get the whole picture before making such a big decision, this is all info from your brother right?

If your mum is so pissed off with what is going on-how do you think that your SILs own parents must feel?

Have you really tried to your brother?

Does he even acknowledge that it isn´t usual?

I know I hated my own mum holding my baby and when MIL had her I´d be willing her to cry for a feed

I´d waited a long time & wanted them all to myself-felt that they had had their turn with their babies & this was my turn with mine.

Sounds really silly, but I hated that they automatically expected to "share" just because they were GPs.

Seems to me your SIL is a massively, massively over-anxious parent and could well need help. Is she even enjoying her own DCs if she's scared to let them out of her sight at all? How on earth will she cope when her DS goes to school?

This amount of anxiety, whether it's PND or other depression, sends out warning bells and the only thing you can do, at least in the short-term, is try not to make the situation worse. And I'm afraid your mum is not helping, even though her feelings are understandable. She is hurt, and taking it personally.

It's very hard on you all but I think the only way is to treat your SIL as normally as you can but try to have a serious word with your DB without making him all defensive about her. It's hard to believe he is happy about not being allowed to be on his own with his own children!
I really hope your visit goes OK.

Thanks tarty - I will now be fighting to make sure the visit goes well!

Daily, I think its quite natural to end up out of the parents' sight with children (older DN, not the baby DNeice) if you are with them for a few hours - they want to show you something in another room, or in the garden. I once without thinking asked DNephew if I could see his new bed and we wandered upstairs, which I probably should have thought better of with hindsight, but that's not unusual?

She obviously has PND. Stop expecting thing of her all the time and just let her be. Or better still, be supportive!

Lexiesgirl, I don not think you are being unreasonable in feeling the way you clearly do, but I do think you would be being unreasonable in acting on it.
I know it is hard and obviously a sleight on your own dc would be hurtful, but this woman sounds like she needs support more than judgement.
You say they had not been together long when she got pregnant. That you hadn't got chance to get to know her, that may also be the case for the couple themselves and they may be struggling. Bringing a baby into a relationship rarely makes things easier.

Really hope your visit goes well. Could be a good opportunity for you to talk seriously to your DB. Not about SIL per se but about your DNs' development. I'm concerned that this idea of home-schooling will become a reality.

Well op, your SIL sounds very selfish. You made the effort for her babies and now she can't return the favour and even show up to greet your little one. I would be majorly annoyed.

It's also wrong how you don't get to see enough of your brothers children. They are not just sils children. But it's up to your brother to ensure contact is maintained and if he doesn't seem bothered there's not a lot you or your mum can do.

My bil and SIL don't have kids yet but they have really doted on my two and if they ever had a baby I would be first in the queue to return the compliment. I would think myself a very nasty person if I couldn't manage gifts and cuddles for a lovely new baby, whether I was breasteeding my own baby or not

Some posters are really spiteful (jubilee) suggesting that having your own baby makes you oblivious or bored by other peoples children. Don't tar us all with the same brush joyless bitches

Fwiw, it sounds like your brother is a pain in the arse too. He's the only one who can mend these bridges.

Thanks for the support Cinnabar, Going, Mama, I was starting to think that I was seriously weird for liking seeing friends and families newborns and expecting people to be even slightly interested in DD, even if just for me and DP's sake

Mama, I think that's summed up how I could and should react to this - its ok to feel hurt, but not ok to act on it in case it is PND which is causing this behaviour,

Oh, and to everyone bashing me for feeling bad because SIL has PND - this is just something we're assuming, she has never seen a healthcare professional about this and has no diagnosis. Its not like I'm ignoring a clear medical diagnosis. For all I know, she is just selfish, overbearing and PFB. (Unlikely, but still a possibility).