about my SIL?

[Lexiesgirl]

I posted about this on WWYD before, but I think its more an AIBU

My DB and SIL have been married a year, they have a young DS and baby DD. I adore my DNephew but haven't really had an opportunity to bond with my DNiece (have only seen her a few times). Over the years I have seen my nephew loads and have helped out when my DB has been so strapped for cash he couldn't afford to by DN new clothes etc.

However my SIL has always been a bit... well, odd. I think she has severe PND and has never let anyone spend time alone with the DNs - by which I mean me and DG's aren't even allowed to take him into a different room in the house where she can't see him, let alone take him to the park or out for the day Obviously this has been really upsetting for our parents, who are almost at the end of their tether. When my parents visit they aren't even offered the baby to hold after being there for several hours. DB won't confront SIL on these issues and seems to think that they are not too extreme (even though he isn't allowed to be on his own with his children!)

I had my DD 5 months ago, DB and SIL's first niece or nephew. It took DB 6 weeks to visit, and he came on his own. I never got a card from them. Now I understand with his own young family DB couldn't drop everything and come over but he did use to drive almost past our house on the way too and from work. The first time he was supposed to come he actually forgot! He has now seen his niece a few times and has been very loving with her, and he brings over clothes DNiece has grown out of, which is really kind of him. But he has to sneak the clothes out of the house as SIL doesn't want to/doesn't think of passing them over. Not that that's bad on its own, really, its just with everything else that it adds up.

What really makes it bad to me is that DM found out last week that SIL has not asked a single question about DD over the entire 5 months, even when DB has been to see her - basically, she has never mentioned her name or acknowledge that she exists.

I don't drive so it isn't possible for me to get to DB's on my own steam, but I should be heading over there with my parents quite soon. DM is adamant that if SIL doesn't acknowledge my DD or doesn't ask for a quick cuddle (we suspect this might happen as it would mean SIL putting her own DD down for a minute) then she is cutting ties with SIL and will only see DB and the kids on their own. I'm not sure that I blame her.

SIL's birthday is coming up very soon. Normally I would buy a present but I don't even feel like sending her a card or a text - though I know this will be seen as a huge slight. DB had a massive go at our parents for not sending a card when they got engaged (we're not really a card family on those occasions, so I don't know where he got that idea from).

I'm starting to stew over this. I don't mind so much for DD as she has other uncles and aunts on my DP's side who dote on her and plenty of our friends who are 'aunts' and 'uncles'. AIBU unreasonable not to acknowledge her birthday?

(Sorry, this turned out longer than I meant!)

Perhaps she does have PND, but I doubt your brother talking to your parents about her behind her back (how else do they/you know she hasn't asked about your DD?) would be helping that.

I assume your Mother realises that if she cuts ties with your SIL then she won't see your DB and the kids on their own, as if SIL won't let the DC out of her sight then she's hardly likely to after your DM has cut her off, is she? Doesn't your nephew go to school/nursery if he's 4 anyway?

I think th ebest way to deal with it, as you maybe don't know the whole story, is to just keep being polite and pleasant and accept, that for whatever reason, your SIL prefers to keep her DC close to her. For all you know your DB could be lying about your SIL's parents never taking the DC out to save your own parent's feelings.

Yes, I wouldn't be interested in someone else's baby either. OK, I would ask to be polite (you know, how's the sleeping thing going, what is she learning to do atm etc) but essentially I don't really have that much interest in other people's tiny babies. My SIL had a baby in October. FIL handed him to me one day at their house and I just handed him onto DH who loves tiny babies because I'm sorry but I am just not that interested in him. He's boring. I'm sure he'll be delightful in a few years but right now (to me, obv not his parents or people who love babies) he's just dull. I do buy him presents and hand on clothes that may be useful and DD likes to pick out an old book of hers to take him when we visit but I really don't want to hold him particularly unless doing SIL a favour because she happens to need someone to hold him right now.

I also wouldn't be that keen on handing my own tiny baby over to other people particularly. And I loved being with mine and didn't want people to take her out for the day for quite a while. How old are your niece and nephew? At two, my daughter would have hated to be away from me for a whole day and was very upset about me even going to work. The last thing I'd have wanted on my day off would have been to hand her over to someone else.

If your SIL has PND, you would be better off being kind to her, not cutting ties and laying down crazy rules about whether or not she should cuddle your baby.

My DB and SIL have never so much as acknowledged the fact of my DCs' births. My eldest DD is 13yrs old. I do buy presents for their DDs, and I get a warm feeling every time, as I feel like I have the moral high ground.

Sorry, massive cross post there. I was doing three different things at once.

Handmade - 13 years?! Wow. I will try to follow your example!

I'm really trying not to assume the worst, terrypratchett, but I understand what you are saying and how it might come across like that.

Midori, DM grilled DB about it . It's honestly not what I would have wanted, but she passed on the information - perhaps wanting to stir? - and its hard not to think about it now I know it.

I suppose I just find it a bit difficult to understand why people would be disinterested to such an extent in a new member of the family. Reading what people have said above, I'll try and talk my mum down on the cuddling issue as she's obviously been judging that by her reaction to babies and not stopping to think that other people will have a different response. And discrete, I know what you're saying about talking to blokes about babies, it probably wouldn't be a very detailed conversation, but I just find it upsetting that SIL hasn't mentioned DD at all. She has her own young family to look after, of course she doesn't have much time or probably much interest in wanting to know the details, but a 'how was the baby' surely isn't too much to expect?

As for it being PND - obviously I'm not a professional or experienced in it, and don't see SIL enough to know if it is PND or just how she is as a mother, but I'm guessing people think it sounds like it? I do really wish DB would acknowledge it and do something to help her, but he just doesn't seem to want to deal with it...

I don't get how your mum knows that your SIL hasn't asked anything about your baby? Did your brother just come out with that?

On its own, its hardly a hanging offence. You aren't close to her, so it might be stretching it a bit to want her to be a good auntie, especially as she clearly has her own issues.

I'm sorry to say this but I think your mum sounds awful. (sorry, I know its your mum). Setting her a deadline to show an interest then cutting her off, that just doesn't sound supportive to me.

Sorry to say it, but I think you are being a bit PFB. Your DD is utterly fascinating to you. It's a bit different after DC2, and that is your SIL's reality at the moment. Dealing with two DCs is fecking hard work.

I'm not anti-baby, but as I said earlier on this thread, given that I have my own baby at the moment, my niece just isn't that interesting to me at the moment, even when I have the energy to think about her.

Sorry, x posts.

Does your mum agree it might be pnd?

Surely she wouldn't cut the girl off if she might be ill.

YANBU to feel upset about your SIL's apparant lack of interest in your DD.

But I think that YABU to not acknowledge your SIL's birthday. You've said that you think she may have PND - this or other issues you don't know about may affect your SIL's behaviour. Not sending a card will only worsen the situation between you.

Also, if you cut ties with your SIL, you should consider the possibility that your DB will side with your SIL. I have a friend whose in-laws fell out with their other sons wife, and he sided with his wife to the extent that he now won't speak to his parents and has refused to let them see their new (and only) grandchild.

Morris - no, say it away! DM has some cracking issues of her own, she's not being supportive any more, and I feel torn between them at the moment. She suffers from depression and the relations with SIL really affects her. She seems to expect me to agree with everything she thinks and the decisions she wants to make. I tend to 'mmm' and nod a lot when she talks, I don't want to upset her and make her depression worse. I'll try and talk her around. Hearing what people are saying on this thread, its now got me wondering if she only told me this information to try and get me 'over' on to her side, which... well, thanks, mum.

The issue with mum and SIL having probable PND is that DB has never acknowledged that mum suffers from depression and has on several occasions told her to just 'get over it', so I think she is projecting those issues onto SIL - as in, if my son won't support my problems, why should I support theirs? Which is neither big, clever or helpful and just exacerbates the situation.

Jubilee, I'll happily admit to being a bit PFB on plenty of things with DD but I don't expect SIL to be involved, I know she has a lot on her plate with two LO's - I just think that acknowledging DD's existence isn't being PFB and I don't think its too unreasonable to be a bit hurt by that?

Bigjoe - I have invited them all over but SIL didn't want to come. I don't blame her for that, what with needing to bring the LO's over. But I'll ask again to see if that helps.

Misslinnet, I am very worried about that. I'll send a card and continue as normal with SIL.

Your mother sounds like a frustrated grandmother who would like some time with her gc and is going to force the issue. However, she does need to think about the long-game, and forcing a confrontation will not improve that.

I think your position is different and I think you can afford to pity SIL, who clearly isn't behaving normally, and it must make home life very difficult for DB, but maybe is so normalised for him, he isn't even aware any more, Or, perhaps he does know the cause and is understanding of the reason behind it. However, if you can just accept this is how SIL is re her own children and have no expectation of her regarding your own, especially as it sounds like your dcs have plenty of people in their lives that do love and treasure them, then you will stop feeling so hurt.

Thanks fashion, that's a really good way of putting it. I've had a rant on here, had a few things I hadn't thought of pointed out to me, so now I will just forget about it, continue as normal with SIL, be ready to be there is she ever needs. Petty whine out of my system!

Cool. You are being very sensible.

I agree with Pictish. It looks like your mother actively went looking for some trigger point to force a confrontation. I don't see how you could just happen to find out that someone hasn't said something, if you see what I mean. She must have been pushing the issue, and may even be jumping to a conclusion that might not be entirely true.

It would be a bit childish of your mother to give your SIL a "test" that she doesn't even know about, and base the future relationship on whether she passes or fails it. But you can't control your mother's behaviour, so I would suggest just carrying on being cordial but not expecting anything from her.

My word there are some right miserable self-centred buggers on here, granted newborns are a bit dull, but it's really sad that some of you think it's normal to completely ignore your nieces and nephews because only your own children are interesting.

OP your SIL & your mother clearly both have issues if I was you I'd just stay out of it.

FWIW, I'm not miserable or self-centred, just flipping knackered from dealing with my own two DCs. When I stop and think about it, I do send my SIL the odd text to find out how my Niece is doing, and I do look at photos online, but when I see them and I'm busy trying to wrestle my own two DCs, I just haven't had a chance to ask to have a cuddle.

I'm not really a baby person TBH - people who love newborn babies are as much of a mystery to me as I would be to you and the OP. The people who practically beat down our door to meet our DCs after they were born drove me batty.

Anyway, it sounds as if the OP has the answers she needed/wanted and has had her rant, so I'm going to hide this thread now.

Furry, I'm a little bit relieved to find someone agrees with me. I'm more than happy to get told that I'm BU about the whole birthday issue and that it would just escalate the problem, that's why I asked and why I'll forget about it. But I'm a little surprised how many people feel that it is acceptable to not acknowledge a new arrival into the family. It's fine if people aren't interested in babies and don't want cuddles etc., but it feels like a slight to me and DP, that SIL doesn't care about us as people enough to acknowledge that something lovely has happened to us.

I agree with you OP and furry too. I have a DS, very busy, at times chaotic life but I always ask about DNs and can't put them down when we see each other. I really don't think SILs behaviour is normal at all - even disregarding what your mother's take on it is.
If she does have PND and this is the root of this behaviour, then I really hope she can get help. I'd be devastated and I don't think it's a small thing to have distance forced between you your DNs - after all you have to build a relationship with them too - but then I'm big on extended family ....

Even if you are not particularly keen on other people's babies, good manners dictate that you feign interest, because it makes family relations run smoothly and it is the socially acceptable thing to do. By not even making a pretence at interest, the SIL is giving the impression that she doesn't care enough about OP and her family to even bother to be polite. That would sting.

I also feel sorry for the GP's. They are probably at the end of their tether, not being able to play with their grandchildren.

I do think it sounds as if SIL isn't very well, but it's hard to say - she could equally just be someone who has no time for extended family and doesn't feel the need to involve them.

I would still send a birthday card and would continue to be polite, but that is probably all I would do. I wouldn't try to force a relationship which doesn't exist, but I would urge my mum not to cut themselves off from SIL or they could end up not seeing their DGC.

I think the fact that she is like this with her own parents is a good sign that she isn't just cutting your parents out - she is the same with everyone and that does indicate that she has some issues. But if your brother won't even acknowledge the possibility then there isn't much you can do, except try to maintain a cordial relationship for the sake of the children in the family.

I've never thought of it as impolite to fail to do something about someone's newborn if dh has done it. SIL's dp never said or did anything to acknowledge my dc's births, but I never took offence - I just took SIL's congrats to be from both of them IYSWIM.

Similarly, dh has never gone out of his way to congratulate my sisters on their new dc - he just left me to do it. He also never asked about them - he didn't need to as I volunteered the information available.

Is that not normal? Do you expect both parties in a couple to provide separate congrats on a new birth?

I think you are being wound up by your mum to feel angry towards your SIL too. I think this deadline business your mum is intent on pressing ahead (and it doesn't sound very nice or supportive) with is putting you under a lot of pressure too. How do you feel about things? That's what's important here. Remember, even if your mum falls out with your DB and SIL, you don't have to.

I think wrt SIL's birthday, a text from a busy mum of a young baby is fine. I don't think a card and gift are necessary, but I also don't think it would be very fair to not acknowledged her birthday at all.

Your mum sounds a right shit stirring drama queen IMO.

YANBU your SIL sounds odd

Do you ever pick up the phone and call her? Ask her to meet for a coffee,or ask her over?
Its a lot to ask of someone to just slip into a family and get in the rythym of their ways.

Your mother sounds overbearing. I would not have put my DC down just to cuddle someone elses baby. I would do the standard cooing and discussing of features but to be completly honest I'm not that interested. Likewise I wouldn't expect anyone to be interested in mine.
I would also be fuming if DH took clothes,whether they were worn or not,and gave them away.

I haven't read all the replies but I don't think YABU.

She may need help and it sounds like your DB may be burrying his head in the sand a bit. but she may just be ultra PFB and totally wrapped up in herself and her children. The fact that she doesn't even let the father of her children or her own family on their own suggests she is over protective. For what reason, we can only guess, but its not fair on your DB really.

I would too be miffed about the total lack of acknowledgment about your own DD. My SIL has seen my DD twice in the 16 months she has been around. The first time her DH was holding DD whilst SIL looked at a magazine. Her DH asked her if she wanted to hold her, she glanced over and went "nah" then discussed recipies with her mother. They live 10 minutes from here. I can't be bothered with her and neither does DH. You don't have to be that interested in other peoples children but family should at least feign a slight interest.