AIBU to disagree with PTA buying defibrillator for primary school?

[Babylon1]

That's it really.

I'm on the governing body at local primary school and the PTA have decided they are going to purchase a defibrillator for the first aid kit.

This is really down to one member of the PTA having suffered a terrible loss due to congenital heart defect which was undiagnosed in a child. NOT a child at this school I hasten to add.

Now, as a governing body, we have a wish list of what we would ideally like the PTA to help purchase, and at the moment we are prioritising interactive whiteboards, a new reading scheme and some new phonics materials - resources that will be used EVERY day by the pupils.

The PTA are insistent in buying the defibrillator ASAP, and I am equally insistent that we neither want/need it for the following reasons:

1. The likelihood of it EVER being used is hopefully very very slim

1. There is an ambulance station with trained medics less than 5 mins away at normal driving pace. On blues and twos an ambulance would/could be present inside of two mins.

1. There has been no consultation with staff, yet 5 of them would be expected to be happy to be trained to administer the defibrillator if it

was required.

1. There has been no consultation with parents to ascertain if they would be happy for their DCs to be defibrillated at school by a non-professional medic (I certainly wouldn't be)

Before I would be in the slightest happy about this, I want a demo from the company providing the equipment on how easy it is to use, bearing in mind it is a paediatric defibrillator.

I want to know who will make the decision that the defibrillator is required - ie who is going to diagnose the child with a failing heart?

What happens if/when it goes wrong? Will the administrator of the defibrillator be held responsible?

So am I being unreasonable?? Really appreciate your thoughts here as I need to feed back to governors at next meeting.

well in my case it;s not world gorn mad
It's whether they are cost effective in primary schools

I dont think that epi-pens and defibs are that comparable. An AED will not fire if it is not required, where someone could needlessly inject a child with an epi-pen (which is a prescription medicine) and potentially cause harm.

The issue of cost effictiveness is the main point here, IMO. The government havent put a defib into every shool beause ot wouldnt be cost effective. If people or organisations have their own money then they may make a different judgement about what measures are cost effective for them, but it is illogical to say that just beause a defib may potentially save a life that they should be bought.

Would it not be better sited in the Sports Pavilion than the first-aid cupboard?

ahhh thank you hive
I have no problems with PTAs up and down the land buying them, but I also don't have a problem with someone questioning whether it;s the best thing

Typically when our PTA raises funds they say very specifically what they are raising the funds for; so it wouldn't be right to change plans & spend the money on something else without heavy consultation.

If I were OP I would try to ask PTA to canvass wider opinions; if the parents mostly want a defib then fine, do it; but it's such a lot of money, try to make it a democratic decision.

Go after the stats - how many people fall over with defibrillator-fixable problems at a school each year, I'd bet its a very, very small number.

You could then look at other more common injuroes/hazards and argue that those should have priority.

Just looked at the price of defibrillators on-line, and they are roughly the same as a theater workshop for the whole school.

I don't think the "very few children will benefit" argument carries much weight, as we never know which child might suddenly benefit.

A colleague of mine is going on a first aid course next week, and I casually asked if she would like to be trained to use a defibrillators. Her response was negative to say the least.

If you are really two minutes from ambulance arriving, then it's likely that the ambulance will be there before someone has run for defib., summoned the trained staff and got started.

lizzy do you think ambulances just sit and wait for the call?

they dont.

an ambulance can be sent from anywhere - it could be out and about or it could be at a hospital - meaning another one is despatched.

we live 5 mins from an ambulance station
when DS got meningitis the nearest ambulance was 30 miles away.

Lynette butvsurely with finite funds you'd be better buying something where more children are likely to benefit?

Lots of children have aan entertaining and cultural afternoon.

Or

One child, possibly, but maybe not, has their life saved.

I don't have the answer.

If they were that important, wouldn't governments demand they were present in all schools.

but there may be other things you can buy for £1000 that would be more likly to save lives

YABU, the success rate or admissions to hospital after resuscitation (survival by 3 months later) used to be something crazy small like 3% (with exception of drowning which had a higher rate

now it is MUCH MUCH higher, the reason? "ordinary" places like supermarkets have defibrillators. They make such a HUGE difference to the statistics as opposed to plain old CPR and ringing an ambulance. HUGE! enourmous difference! a lot of lives saved

FOR not or

even of primary aged children?

its an overall figure

but the advanced life support teacher where I work says that CPR and ambulance = giving it a go on the OFF chance it works (it often does short term, but the outcome by 3 months later not good), but now that public places have defibs people have a real fighting chance of recovery.

If only one child needs help, I think a 20% or whatever it is chance Vs 3% chance is worth it!

But what if one child needs some other piece of life saving equipment? but they bought the defib instead? Money is finite! So I'm suggesting the OP and the PTA investigate the differnet options

what else could be as high a priority in terms of first aid? some epi pens perhaps? but they don't cost that much. If any particular child has particular medical equipment needs surely they would have that equipment themselves, in terms of the school as a whole a defib is a good investment

"I want to know who will make the decision that the defibrillator is required - ie who is going to diagnose the child with a failing heart"
not failing, FAILED, so they're dead, how wrong can it go? one of two things'll happen, they stay dead or they are revived!

I don't know what else - that is the whole point, neither does the OP, neither do most people on this thread I suspect! They just hear saves lives (no matter how tiny a risk) and react accordingly

there are not many generic bits of life saving equipment, even in hospitals! crash trollies aren't that big and the defib takes up a big part of it

defib
O2 and mask
maybe some airways (but prob noone willing to put them in in school setting)
suction
epipen type drugs etc..
and some other bits but that's the general gist of a HOSPITAL crash trolly

these "unknown" bits of equipment you're talking about would be more individual things which would be provided for that individual, a defib is a standard piece of first aid kit! lots of public places have them now because they save more lives than anything else the first aider can do (bar call for help)

oh and fluids, which noone in a school setting would administer

but if every bigish supermarket can find people suitable to defib i don't see why a school wouldn't/shouldn't

I'm willing to stand corrected, but I thought they had very limited use in paediatrics? that it is extremely rare to need to shock a child? Ps haven't read the whole thread? if its already been covered. Maybe the money would be better spent on annual advanced CPR training for all staff? (which would keep the blood pumping until medics arrived)

I wouldn't expect my child's school to have one.

it wouldn't be advanced CPR though with no defib, it would be BASIC life support, which is WAAAAAAAAY less effective!

but I do believe that yes, more paed arrests are respiritory in cause than adults (more likely to be cardiac than a child) but once a respiratory arrest progresses it becomes a cardiac arrest anyway...

"I wouldn't expect my child's school to have one"

even though most other large public establishments do?