to wonder why the whole country has gone completely bloody Royalist?

[Hullygully]

Erect the scaffold.

Up the Republicans.

We are ADULTS we don't need a feudalistic Divine Right of Kings addled parasitical bunch of halfwits to live off our taxes.

Loveis, it does make a practical difference. Symbols are powerful things, that is why we have them. And marketing works, hence the sheep on the streets waving flags to cheer a system which legitimises class and unearned privilege.

Now that young children have been indoctrinated that the queen and monarchy are to be revered and celebrated, the rotten class system is safe and will continue into the next generation.

How does the class system improve with the abolition of the monarchy?

I think Catherine will make a fabulous royal as she has the perfect breeding. What is the Queen if not official hostess for the UK? She waves, she welcomes, she makes polite conversation, and she does it well.

The Queen is there because of popular support. If the monarchy became too political (watch out Charles), I don't think they would last another 5 years. I don't think anybody thinks she has a god like status.

Aside from all of that, I'd be interested to know how much money we would actually save by having a president. A president would still need staff, the state would still maintain the historical buildings like Windsor Castle (and things that nominally belong to her like the royal parks).

I suspect the 24 hour rolling news coverage of all the events was annoying, but I didn't watch any of it.

Love is, err, do you need to ask? It at least will send the message that as society we do not institutionalise and worship the class system. It is changing the reference points on what we value in society.

Just talking to someone at work who said "I'm not really a royalist but I felt so proud and emotional at the weekend to be British - and the royal family is a huge part of that."

Try as you will, there are millions of people who won't appreciate the rational arguments about the class system. The idea that the the upper class still shit on the lower class is skewed in the modern world. It's wealth that counts these days and you can be lower class and extremely wealthy. Our children are more likely to be impressed by that than they are being a princess. (Note that a huge proportion of London schoolchildren don't really know who the Queen is or what she does, so this idea that indoctrination of our next generation is taking place seems a bit odd to me.)

At least the stupid bunting has gone off the MN logo now,I can now scroll up without getting the rage.

But flatbread, by removing the monarchy you are taking out one very small part of the old class system. There are still hundreds of lords, dukes and barons strolling around. Wouldn't we have to totally deconstruct all those layers of the class system before true equality was attained?

Loveis, of course, strip all titles. That is part of deinstitutionalising the monarchic system. We don't need kings and queens and dukes and lords in modern times.

If people need to be recognised for achievements, let them get a medal from the state, not a feudal title.

Well, that's not a country I'd like to live in. Call me a sheep, call me mindless, but I don't like the sound of a state-run everything. Tradition, ceremony, pomp etc does count for something with me. Just because we don't 'need' something, why get rid of it? I really don't consider they have any superiority over me, I don't worship the aristocracy, I think I am lucky to live in a country where pretty much every opportunity I could want is available to me. No, I can never be Queen, but frankly, that's something I'm grateful for.

So if the traditional feudal system means nothing to you, why are you so intent on preserving and worshipping it?

If you just want pomp and ceremony, let's have an independence day when we abolish the monarchy and celebrate us, rather than a hereditary ruler.

pmsl @ the news and their reporting of how we capitalise on this around the world? Where have they been Nothing will change as with the internet and social media etc peoples memories are short and they are after the next quick fix! This is seen in music film everything people like a band for a week before they find another and forget the last one and it will be the same with this. People are in it for instant gratification and all the community spirit will die just as it always does. Everyone who feels motivated to take to the streets en masse should use their numbers to campaign against the unfair cuts and taxes/ So glad its over

I don't consider we're still living in a 'traditional feudal system' in the proper sense of what that means. I'm not even intent on perserving it and as I said above - I don't worship it.

Abolishing the monarchy means abolishing centuries of tradition whether it be good or bad. I'm not willing to do that. I want pomp and ceremony that means something and if you are going to celebrate 'us', there needs to be a focus. An elected head of state who might be gone after four or five years is hardly going to inspire people to celebrate the way they have this weekend.

I also don't really get the viewpoint that the Queen is our ruler in any way that practically matters (and if can accept that not everyone shares the same principles, it does come down to practicalities). Someone give me an example of what she's done in the last ten years which has negatively impacted on my life?

Typical degeneration into class debate

Um...what else could it possibly possibly possibly be...?

Be warned Flatbread- you could be my grandfather talking and it turned us into monarchists!

I think this all depends on whether you think

"Monarch - there's a rewarding well paid job that we could all aspire to!"

or

"Monarch - what a nightmare job - thank goodness some poor family has agreed to it in perpetuity so that nobody else has to!".

It would quite clearly be much fairer if we all chipped in and maybe everybody had to do a week, a bit like jury service. However, in the meantime, I am quite glad the Queen is doing it for me.

A nightmare job for me- I would pay not to do it!

I love the way people act as if the work she's doing is the equivalent of breaking stones in a Siberian work camp. 'Ooooh I'm glad I don't have to do all that hard work'.

There's a reason she doesn't have any wrinkles, there's a reason her mother lived till she was a 105.

"What powers does the Queen have?
The Queen has the right to rule: the people of Britain are not citizens, but subjects of the monarch. Most public servants must swear an oath of loyalty, or make an affirmation of their loyalty, to the crown.

Although the Queen is politically neutral, she has the right to be consulted and to "advise and warn" ministers. Otherwise her residual powers - the "royal prerogative" - are mostly exercised through the government of the day. These include the power to enact legislation, to award honours (on the advice of the prime minister), to sign treaties and to declare war.

But royal prerogative is the subject of controversy, because it confers on governments the power to make major decisions without recourse to parliament. When Edward Heath brought Britain into the EEC in 1972, parliament was not consulted until afterwards. Similarly, Margaret Thatcher used royal prerogative to go to war in the Falklands in 1982.

The Queen has two individual powers that could cause a political crisis if they were ever exercised. She may refuse a government's request to dissolve parliament and call an election, if she believes a government can legitimately be formed. She also has the right to choose the prime minister: a formality in the case of a clear majority, but potentially controversial after an inconclusive general election. This almost happened in February 1974, when Labour failed to win an overall majority but the Conservatives considered power-sharing with the Liberals."

(taken from here

Don't know about you, but I'd far rather be a citizen rather than a subject.

I guess the brainwashing has worked. Yes, 'poor' queen, doing us all a favour by having us as her subjects and that immense wealth and privilege are but poor compensation

If you do not see that the monarchy underpins and legitimises a rotten feudal way of thinking within the public sphere, you are deliberately being obtuse.

Interestingly, I would think the lower classes are more likely to revere the monarchy. The chip on their shoulder will not allow them to look up to someone who has made it on their achievements. Because that would mean merit, not accident of birth, is what matters. If as society we celebrate hard work and achievement, that means people need to strive to better themselves. Nah, better to have 'traditions' where we can celebrate people who fell into their position by birth.

A reasoned argument on how the monarchy underpins and supports practices that impact all of us
www.centreforcitizenship.org/monarchy/mon_rights.html

If the Queen suddenly stopped being the Queen she and her family would still be immensely wealthy, living in their own palaces with their own staff and receiving income from the Duchys of Lancaster and Cornwall. For the moment however the royal family perform an ambassadorial and ceremonial role on behalf of the UK and so also get live in houses etc and use titles that come with the job.

It is all symbolism but I don't see that as a bad thing, it provides a sense of continuity and a link to the UK's continuing journey through history. In the US they treat the flag as an almost sacred symbol, in the UK we use a person to fulfil a similar role, to play the part of a focus for a sense of national identity and feeling. At least a person can wave back when you cheer it!

I think it is hugely insulting to dismiss millions of people as sheep when they all have their own individual reasons for wanting to maintain that symbolism (but I guess that was the point of the comment).

That is what my grandfather said flatbread - I followed my father who let us make up our own minds.There is nothing to make you more bolshy than a parent telling you what to think!