to wonder why the whole country has gone completely bloody Royalist?

[Hullygully]

Erect the scaffold.

Up the Republicans.

We are ADULTS we don't need a feudalistic Divine Right of Kings addled parasitical bunch of halfwits to live off our taxes.

Do you seriously believe Hully that the Royal Family were complicit in murdering Diana (and that she was pregnant by Dodi Fayed)

Really????????

LifeHope11 how can you ask the Queen to feel ashamed for a world-wide economic recession that she had no part in creating and has no power to solve?? Seriously???

I can't be doing with the bunting and I'm a republican, but I've been surprised at how little all this has bothered me. I totally agree with the PP who gave the excellent analysis of why this system of privilege is wrong.

I think I have finally identified why I'm not foaming at the mouth though - it's because it's all about this old lady. And our society, culture, whatever you call it, is not really good at celebrating, or even considering old ladies. And I think old ladies are great.

That sounds really sentimental doesn't it? It's actually from a kind of feminist, pro-old people angle.

loveisagirl - no I was not suggesting that the Queen is personally responsible for the recession, just that many people in this country are suffering as a result of it and she should demonstrate some concern. if she wanted to do so she would and could....that she does not speaks volumes.

In her shoes - at the centre of a glittering expensive pageant dedicated to her when there is supposedly 'no money' for so many important and necessary services - I would feel embarrassed and ashamed, as I am ashamed at the moment of belonging to a country with such a twisted sense of priorities (and I love my country and am proud of it for so many things, but not this).

But it is not the Queen herself I object to so much as the monarchy and what it represents....I have nothing against her personally but I am afraid I despise everything her position stands for

and I love Her Maj so ner

Laurie, at least Di and Dodi's baby wouldn't have been GERMAN.

I really agree about the old ladies, Dashing. My fellow Republicans, I suggest that now is not the moment. Let's swallow our Pimms with good grace, or go to work if we really want to protest - I am - and have a separate Republican party on 4 or 14 July.

LifeHope I think you have to weigh up the costs of putting this event on (which I have no doubt would NOT be funding the services you speak of even if it weren't happening) vs. the feel-good factor for the large majority of the nation.

The Olympics and other non-royalist events cost far more; plus as a nation, we host far fewer events than other republican nations.

What's more, the Jubilee is helping businesses to make money (okay, I know some are losing because of the 4 day weekend - although I don't hear anyone actually moaning about that???)

for softpaw

Republicans stand firm! I find it obscene that she parades around in a gold carriage flaunting her wealth when so many people are struggling to make ends meet. I can't abide all the fauning and simpering, what makes them better than the rest of us? it's madness. People should earn respect not expect it as a birthright.

The jubilee is costing the economy a fortune. I work for the health service and will be on overtime for two nights over the jubilee!

*Tunnocks, I can't think of a monarch more deserving of our respect than the Queen. She has never implied that she expects anything. Her mother and sister weren't quite so humble....

She can't actually help the fact that she was born into the monarchy and had her duty instilled into her. She was also born at a time when most citizens would have been horrified by this sort of debate.

She can't actually help the fact that she was born into the monarchy and had her duty instilled into her. She was also born at a time when most citizens would have been horrified by this sort of debate.

We are subjects not citizens.

Well I was born at a time when people thought flares were good, but it doesn't have that much effect on how I think now!

If she was anything decent, she would say 'no no, this is just too much: I know the country is not in a good economic state what with the double-dip recession everyone told Gideon would happen but he did it anyway, really, I'm happy with all the gold and the houses and the swans and the corgis, I really don't expect you all to celebrate me as well. It would just be embarrassing!'

loveisagirl: I am not convinced the feel-good factor is as widespread as many royalists believe (this thread is evidence for this).

Have a party by all means: but the display of extravagence, wealth and inherited privilege makes me & others feel queasy, especially those who have lost benefits and services and are struggling at this time (I know many of them personally).

Whether the Olympics is more expensive is neither here nor there, that is a whole different topic....it is not the expense of the Jubilee itself so much as what it represents, ie that there is money to lavish on our unelected monarch but little for the people who really need it.

And you said it yourself....overall businesses will LOSE not make money out of this.

The economics is a factor which I can appreciate people getting worked up about - although as I said earlier, there are plenty of non-royalist events we spend money on as well, so you can't lay the blame at the Queen's door for all of it.

If anyone had any decency, the Olympics would be called off for that reason too. Is that what we're suggesting? Cancelling everything that gives us reason to feel some hope in all the gloom and doom that's going on at the moment?

*LifeHope11 - MN is pretty left-wing so this sort of response doesn't suprise me. I don't actually think it's representative of the way the country feels. IMHO of course

Doesn't give me any 'hope' that we 'subjects' are expected to fawn and tug our forelocks at some rich old woman! It's not the bloody middle ages!

The Olympics isn't about celebrating one person for being a) alive b) born into tremendous wealth and then given lots more of it. It's about achievement and talent.

On a lighter note, I wonder if MNHQ will try to impersonate Her Maj in a webchat? Because for the wedding that went well.

But it's still costing us a fortune at a time when people are out of work and services are being cut. If the argument is about economics, fine, if its about the monarchy, fine. But the two are being merged as a reason for not having the jubilee.

If I were her Maj I would would have been praying for a revolution resulting in a republic for the best part of the past 90 years. She would then have a personal fortune estimated at £10 billion to spend as she chose without having to spend most of her 86th year standing in the rain accepting bouquets from school children several times a day.

She's a pretty rubbish German - not even speaking the language. There may be a claim for her to be French though - speaks french and William the Conqueror was French wasn't he?

Being partly anglo-saxon myself and therefore of Germanic/Scandi origin I'm quite happy to have one of my brethren in control of the country. The celtic half of me is however horrified. Its a complicated existence, mine...

Nit (great name BTW) - I have never tugged my forelock at anyone and I really doubt the royal family expects that. I don't consider myself a subject because they don't act in such a way that I am made to feel one. To all intents and purposes they are a symbol of something from the past, but effectively powerless. That's why it just doesn't bother me.

"The jubilee is costing the economy a fortune. I work for the health service and will be on overtime for two nights over the jubilee!"

As long as you do the decent thing and spend that money in the UK then its all a nice feel-good merry-go-round.

I can't think of any monarch that deserves respect they cannot be in touch with reality, too privileged. How would she imply what she expects "loveisagirl". Respect because of a title is wrong the "citizens" you mention were made to feel inferior we have moved on. Society is different now.The focus should be on getting this country back on it's feet and stopping the punishing cuts.

And I STILL don't see why a republic would do anything more than make republicans feel they'd achieved something? Would it repair our economy? Would it solve discrimination? What would it actually do, in real terms, for the good? After all, Syria is a republic.