to think that doctors shouldn't go on strike over pension changes

[starwarrior]

Why shouldn't they just suck it up like the rest of us?

Hear hear Frozen north. Agree with every word as someone with a medical family.

Ah well, that was a joke MIRRY, one frequently bandied about between people I know as to who is the "real" Doctor!

If I had the energy I would write a detailed post about how YABVU.
I work around 30 hours a week of unsocial, bloody hard hours (can't remember the last time I ever managed a break) as a five year qualified doctor. This month I took home £1200.
I can't afford to pay more money that I won't actually see in my pension when I am finally allowed to retire.
Lack of public support will drive hard working doctors out of the profession/ to other countries and lower the standard of the medical profession.

I promised myself I wouldn't post, but it's too hard!

Ok, firstly, to declare my interest -yes, I am a doctor (have an MbChB and a MD, so should satisfy everyone).
Secondly, I am a member of the BMA. However, I didn't vote as I couldn't decide how to vote. I'm still not sure what I will be doing on 21st June. What I will be doing, is ensuring that my patients are not adversely effected. As will 99.9% of doctors.

I am highly paid and am aware of how privileged that makes me. I have a comfortable life, but we are not rich. My take home pay dropped by over £100 a month in April when the new pension rates came in. For this extra contribution, I will have the privilege to work longer and get less money at the end of that time. I appreciate that medics are by no means alone in this.

We feel angry and not listened to (as do many in the public sector) and when we compare our 13-14% contributions to those of civil servants I'm not going to mention MPs as I think they are just taking the piss then it is frustrating.

I didn't go into medicine to make myself rich, but neither did I expect to have to work in the conditions that I have to work in, with the constant battle to do the best for my patients in a system that is consistently tring to save money year on year.

Lastly, I have never voted conservative and never will.

How much is the average doctor's yearly pension?

Oh, meant to add, I am happy not to be called Dr Token due to inverse snobbery from several centuries ago, I much prefer Miss Token

It's the reason we have left the country already, TheToken and Knackered. Come abroad, it's better. Better respect, better salary, better recognition of talent.
I don't think anyone studies for 5 years, then tons of years further with antisocial hours and endless exams to take home £1200.

1950s, thanks for the words of encouragement. We are seriously seriously considering it. I worked out my gross hourly rate to be about £10.45. Aldi are advertising for staff at nearly £10 an hour.
Am very disheartened but unfortunately love my job!

Sorry that should read my NET hourly rate before anyone questions my terrible maths!

Knackered - my revalation came a few years ago when my on call rate was £7 an hour. It seemed very odd that the surgeon could be paid less to be in theatre at 2.30 in the morning than the porter!

Took us a few years to finally make the move. I honestly would consider moving. My DH is amazed at how much more respectful the staff are to him, not making him God-like, but actually seeming to appreciate the fact that he is highly trained now and really happy he is there. He was treated like shit sometimes by the NHS. Co-incidently, 4 out of the 7 surgical trainees from his rotation have gone abroad. It's a little frightening.

Studied for 5 years, started working when out of hours pay was poor, and the cleaner was paid more than the junior doctor working out of hours doing a 32 hours duty with four hours "protected" sleep.

Have now reached the end of my training, there are no jobs, despite many of us entering training programmes designed to meet anticipated need. (Awfully sorry, we cocked up and expanded the jobs too early, oops.)

Politicians earing the same as us will contribute less and take back more from their pension.

After paying childcare fees, indemity fees, GMC fees and Royal College membership fees (to pay for the training to get me the consultant job that has gone) I take home £200/month. (I get the idea DH's salary contributes too, but if I wasn't working I wouldn't be paying child care.)

Do I believe in striking? Not really, it's not quite the mentality with which I went into medicine. Do I feel shafted, misrepresented and utterly disillusioned? Yes.

Rant over.

OMG Misso, this happened to us as well!!!!!! Training places were a nightmare. There is a guy who followed on my DH in a fellowship who doesn't have a job next month. He is really highly trained up and now looking to the USA for a job. Is that what the NHS really is about? Spending hundreds of thousands of hours training junior doctors to 'give' them to other countries?

Again, I repeat - come abroad. I just wish we'd done it sooner but Dh felt such loyalty to the NHS. We were totally shafted.

Where did you go?

Canada. It's fab.

It's tempting, but it's far away from the family. Lovely quality of life thoug.

I know what you mean, although now people come for extended periods of time, we are surprisingly happy with how much we see people. And coming back once a year helps. In fact, it's been better as before I'd sometimes not see folk for 6 months at a time, and then it was just for Sunday lunch. Now we have them over for ski holidays etc. Also, we are on the east coast so the flights aren't too bad.

Where's the OP?

Also just want to point out that this isn't about opting in or out of a future system we have control over... No this is about the money people have already paid into the scheme from their take home pay over the last 20 odd years.

How would you feel if you paid into a saving account through work every month, only to find that 20 years later when the money should be there ready, the rules changed and they refused to give you the money back... in effect the govt have stolen this money from us

Am a doctor btw but have bu**er all pension anyway because I had some years out... but it just seems v unfair on those that paid in and now the govt have taken it for themselves. I think I will opt out of the scheme now just on principle.. its not v good value now anyway.

Nothing new about the govt shafting Drs btw... 20 years ago we got paid one third of normal wage for weekends and nights and Bank Holidays...the porters and cleaners were on double pay, we were on a third pay.. no one complained becos otherwise we would have been making a mint and the govt didn't want to employ more Drs to ease the workload... some of theses very Drs who have worked their butts off round the clock saving lives, now really need their retirement.

JCIT. That is so shocking!

orangesandlemons - just back from the pub thanks for asking . I posted on p2 of thread to agree that IABVU and explained why.

It is highway robbery.
The money to pay our pensions as they were renegotiated 4 years ago is there .
If you listed carefully to what government talking heads say, they never use the words 'unaffordable'. It is always 'it is a good scheme'.

They want/need our money because Big Money has cocked up and they are going to take it.

Do I think a strike is going to change anything? Not really.
Do I feel very strongly that we must strike to at least make a point? Hell, yes.

I am so angry, I could burst.
I pay over a quarter of my income into my pension, will have to work more years, get less when I retire.
Civil servants apparently pay 3% of their salary for their pension.

"Spending hundreds of thousands of hours training junior doctors to 'give' them to other countries?"

oh the irony. huge numbers of our practicing NHS staff came from the third world...

EdgarAllen. Not too sure what your post means? I might be being dense.

I read that it costs about £250K + to train a person to become a consultant. It just seems odd that either there are no jobs at the end or the pay and conditions becomes such an issue that over half the people my DH trained with have gone respectively to the US, 2 to Canada and one to Oz. I think one other may be off to S NZ.
Seems like a bad use of resources. But I'm off the pension topic. Sorry...