To feel that having nearly half of your salary taken away is just not right?

[WinnieTheWho]

I don't earn enough to pay tax & NI but my DH has a pretty good job & salary for which he works BLOODY hard. I was horrified to work out after last pay day that for EVERY £1 he earned, he only kept 60 pence. This is due to a combination of paying very high income tax and NI, as well losing all of his personal allowance because he might get a bonus at the end of the year! It just seems that if you work hard to get paid well and you are a PAYE taxpayer, the Government & HMRC will just shaft you from all angles. It just makes me wonder why we bother? So... AM I BEING UNREASONABLE?

Yes Blu, but other countries have that too with much better and fairer tax systems.

I live in London, am the highest paid person in our home, am an ordinary rate tax payer and we certainly do not have a 'crappy' lifestyle

Also we simply do not have the natural resources of the scandi countries.

Right Blu, so does that mean you can speak for EVERY HE in London?

I have never begrudged paying tax but I do think we live in a highly entitled country. Very little social mobility - no shit sherlock.

Good post drumstickz

Well as a HRT payer I would love to be accumulating wealth. I wish perception

i bet everyone in singapore does not have a good life. who cleans your house for you? who works in the factories? do they all live like princes? i bet not. we pay tax in this country so that when we fall down in the street we get taken to a good hospital, not the 'rich' hospital or the 'poor' hospital after we have been searched for proof of income.

it does hurt to see a third of your money taken when you see your payslip but the benefits of helping and being helped outweigh the 'pain'. if you are too selfish to understand that, that is your problem. i hope this country reforms anything that needs it but continues to care about the people here.

I do realise that if you're just the other side of the threshold for when HRT kicks in, you are quite unlucky, particularly if you're a single parent who has to pay for childcare and you may now lose your child benefit. But I don't get the impression the OP's DH fits that description, american78. Though I'm happy to stand corrected if wrong. I suppose they have to draw the line somewhere.

It would be very interesting if a journalist out there could make a documentary comparing the UK's services with other european countries.

As I said earlier in this thread, having lived abroad, I can see how expensive the UK is compared to what we get in return through services. Even paid activities are extremely expensive in comparison.

Good point, drumstickz.

I keep comparing to Norway on this thread, and Norway dont spend a lot on war. They do however spend a lot on foreign aid. Too much, many Norwegians say.

You aren't being unreasonable, OP. But the people who think they're entitled to your money to spend it on their pet projects are being unreasonable.

Creighton, 1/3 wouldn't be too bad but for many it's closer to 50% including NIC.

timetoask "It would be very interesting if a journalist out there could make a documentary comparing the UK's services with other european countries."

Thats really whats needed. Comparison is such a useful tool. I suspect it would be pretty shocking. I too believe that people in other Northern European countries get far more for their money.

Yes, theres poverty in this country which needs massive resources to be tackelled, but it never seems to get eradicated unlike in countries like Holland where no-one is really poor any more. Perhaps its perecption - perhaps the lack of a flatscreen 32" tv isn't considered poverty elsewhere?

In the UK more people use credit than in the rest of europe. that is going to make household finance less robust.

A third!!!! A third!!!!

With NI and no allowance it's nearer to 60%

Drumstickz- well said.

YANBU at all. It does seem that, my dh is in the same position. Mabey he should get a lower paid job. Are we not allod to moan

The question is not just whether anyone in Holland, or Sweden, or Norway, are really poor, but whether anybody in those countries are able to enjoy the same insane levels of wealth as in the uk!

People here seem to think that people deserve their wealth, they have earned their money through hard work and (having parents who have put them through education) grind, and equally, those who dont, deserve that too....

The inherent problem, from an outsiders perspective seems to be two fold.

On the one hand wealth is desired, and earned through achievement, whereas lack thereof is not only frowned upon, but as deserved as wealth. There is little empathy for people with less, together with an accept that a small minority are entitled to their wealth without question. It is a strange sense of entitlement where not only does everyone feel entitlement to something (be it Benefits or Ferraris) but there is also a recognition that people are in fact entitled to what they have.

And I believe this is at the crux of the matter. It is accepted from the large majority that an even small majority should have most of the wealth, and to dare disagreeing with this is just branded "jealousy". And "jealousy" by definition cannot be defended against.

People here seem to think that people deserve their wealth

yes - my parents come from one of the poorest areas around liverpool. through their and my brothers work, we have gone from the bottom of income to the top 1% in 2 generations.

We started with zero, how can you say we havent earnt it?

i earn app. twenty times what my cousin earns. you think i am the one that needs examination, i think its her.

Well if I don't deserve my wealth, who does?

I have been given absolutley nothing in life. Everything I have, I have earned myself. DH too.

if you work hard of course you deserve what you earn, and yes the health and social professions and emrgency services should get better pay

Thanks, you have just perfectly proved my point! Entitlement, and lack of empathy! Which is why, I assume the flat salary and taxation structure enjoyed other places will never work in terms of turning Britain around to a flourishing nation with great (free) top of the range services for all to enjoy, like in Scandinavia and places like Holland..

People WANT polarizing the poor and the wealthy. How can you show your wealth and success if not measured against those who have less!

Entitlement! no i am not entitled to anything. if i make bugger all money this year, i make bugger all money! doh....you cannot run a small business thinking you are entitled to anything.