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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel that having nearly half of your salary taken away is just not right?

877 replies

WinnieTheWho · 27/05/2012 10:38

I don't earn enough to pay tax & NI but my DH has a pretty good job & salary for which he works BLOODY hard. I was horrified to work out after last pay day that for EVERY £1 he earned, he only kept 60 pence. This is due to a combination of paying very high income tax and NI, as well losing all of his personal allowance because he might get a bonus at the end of the year! It just seems that if you work hard to get paid well and you are a PAYE taxpayer, the Government & HMRC will just shaft you from all angles. It just makes me wonder why we bother? So... AM I BEING UNREASONABLE? Confused

OP posts:
wordfactory · 28/05/2012 14:43

quint are you seriously suggesting that poeple should work long hours and take lots of risk for the benefit of others?

Would you?

The reality is that the Scandi countires simply don't have the culture of enrepreneurism. And why would they? If you won't end up any better off by taking loads of risks, then why would you? May as well take the safe option. Plus the people in the Scandi coountries are far more homogenous. Everyone has the same interests and values.

We're just not like that here in the UK. We individulaistic. We will take risks. We will graft. But we expect to benefit from it. And what each of us sees as a benefit is different.

bumbleymummy · 28/05/2012 14:43

Who was that directed at quint?

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 28/05/2012 14:44

FFS
People who have shitty jobs and work 50 hr weeks and earn crap money pay taxes too.

It might not be as much as the HE but it still takes a lot out of their pay packet and they dont have the nice lifestyle to make up for it.

Poor people pay taxes
Being poor does not mean you dont work hard enough to be rich.

MarysBeard · 28/05/2012 14:49

Most people who pay 40% tax don't actually sacrifice 40% of their salary in income tax. It's a band, so first of all you've got the personal allowance, then above that a band of 20%, then a higher rate band of 40%, so it's only the part that falls into the higher rate band that you pay the 40% on.

So when I was in the 40% tax band I paid about 30% of my salary in tax (and that was including NI), then a bit more into a pension and childcare vouchers.

StarlightMcKenzie · 28/05/2012 14:49

They have homebirths as standard in the Scandi countries!

Just saying!

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 14:49

Being poor does not mean you dont work hard enough to be rich of course not but in my family ands social group, people who make more sacrifices for work and work longer hours earn more.

QuintessentialShadows · 28/05/2012 14:50

You are absolutely right. Here people work for their own benefit, and are despairing that they pay tax, and see no benefit to themselves for the tax they pay. It is so true!

Not sure that I agree with lack of entrepreneur-ism in Scandinavia, though. Wink

wordfactory · 28/05/2012 14:51

marys when you earn a certain amount, you don'tr get an allowance. Neither DH nor I have one!!!

We pay 30% on a small %, 40% on a bigger % and 50% an even bigger % (plus NI).

wordfactory · 28/05/2012 14:58

quint the majprity of working Scandinavians are employd by the state.

Nowt wrong with that, but it is not how many of us in the UK want to be.

Also, in the Scandinavian countries people want, nay demand state intervention. As I say peopl ehave more homogenous ideas on things. So it's not that they are thinking of others, it's what they actively want for themselves. Not remotely selfless, if you're getting what you want.

Here in the UK you just won't get that agreement of ideas and values. Person A may wish to spend all his money on flash cars. Person B may wish to save everything so they can retire at fifty. Person C may prefer to earn less now and have more time with their family...

MN is a quite homogenous group (overhwelmingly white, middle class, educated) and yet we all still fiercely disagree. Too individualistic.

MarysBeard · 28/05/2012 15:00

If you are earning that much wordfactory you should probably hire a tax advisor who will get it down to about 20% for you...most taxpayers in the 50% band pay far less tax than people on minimum wage!

StarlightMcKenzie · 28/05/2012 15:00

And they breastfeed for longer!

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 28/05/2012 15:00

Not in mine.
Despite having a serious and painful disability my OH goes out to work. He doesnt work long hours but taken in context it is like a healthy person working 100hr week.

He earns just above MW. He pays tax, I pay tax. We always have done.
We have always worked but have never had high paying jobs.

The taxes I and my OH pay are just as valuable and hard earned as anyone elses.
They are still paying for other people's children to be educated and for other people to get medical care, for roads they drive their cars on and their rubbish to be collected.

I am proud to pay taxes and I dont resent it at all. I dont understand why people whine about it.

theodorakis · 28/05/2012 15:01

About working hard, I earn quite a lot. I certainly don't work any harder than I did when I was an NHS nurse but I made choices. I retrained, moved abroad, work in the oil and gas industry on a basic plus bonus system and have chosen the steps to make a lifestyle we as a family wanted. I don't feel in the slightest guilty because I made those choices, life is what you make it.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 28/05/2012 15:02

Not everyone has the choice.
Some of us have to make the best of the life we have. Our options are limited and we do what we can with them.

StarlightMcKenzie · 28/05/2012 15:03

And the kids go to school later!

Just saying again, although being ignored!!!!!

QuintessentialShadows · 28/05/2012 15:14

Yeah, and people just work 9 to 4 mostly, so they are slackers, too!

StarlightMcKenzie · 28/05/2012 15:18

Lol!

Anyway, my point (not that anyone has asked) is that as a nation as a whole I'd predict higher levels of oxytocin (social cohesion, bonding, working together, caring for each other) and less testosterone (competition, aggression, selfishness).

TheUnMember · 28/05/2012 15:33

I have never lived in sweden. How to the services compare to the UK?

Is childcare subsidised by the government or is it as ridiculously expensive as in the uk?

It's very heavily subsided. It's capped at 3% of income for first child, 2% for second, 1% for third and free for any others. There's a monetary figure as well, but I can't remember what that is.

Do they have such huge demand for social housing?
Housing in Stockholm is a nightmare and people wait for decades for a flat, partly because people sublet. Generally though, it isn't a problem. I know a few people, immigrants like me, who have housing association flats that they got before moving here. My friend wanted to move to Gothenburg and it took her about 8 months to get a flat there.

How does their immigration levels compare to the uk?
Currently it's higher than the UK, 15%

What is the health system like?
In my experience, excellent. My husband had a cancer a scare. Within a week of telling his GP he'd been referred to hospital, undergone tests, seen a specialist and been given the all clear.

What are the pensions like?
I get a bit confused with this. As I understand it, my husband (an employee) will receive a state pension of 55% of his salary, an occupational pension of 15%. I haven't worked here yet so I would get the 'minimum pensions guarantee' which currently is about £600 per month

What is the education like?
I am very satisfied with the education my daughter has received. I believe that the academic standards are lower than the UK but the overall education experience is much higher. The focus isn't on grades, it's on coming out as a well rounded individual.

What sort of maternity leave is available?
You get 12 months parental leave. A certain amount has to be taken by each parent, the rest can be divided however they see fit. You also get paid time off work if you children are sick.

Are homes as expensive as in the uk?
Stockholm and Gothenburg are expensive, everywhere else would make you cry. My house is massive with a football pitch garden. Cost £55k

Are leisure activities affordable? (I think they are too expensive in the uk)
What do you mean by this? Most Swedes swim in the lakes, which is free, and go walking/skiing in the forests, which is also free.

Is transport affordable? (trains, buses)
My husband pays approx £140 a month for a ticket which covers all trains and buses in the region and allows him to make the 2 hr commute into Gothenburg every day in relative luxury. But we do have to put up with the BLUE train station

bumbleymummy · 28/05/2012 15:33

MrsD, people aren't whining about tax in general, it's about the higher proportion that means that you only take home half of what you earn. Ok, that half may be more than what others earn but it's still a bit disheartening.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 28/05/2012 15:39

I understand.
Its still not as disheartening as earning MW and working a 50 week as a security guard though is it?
A security guard who pays taxes too.

SauvignonBlanche · 28/05/2012 15:44

How can it be more "disheartening" than living in poverty?

porcamiseria · 28/05/2012 15:46

CAN PEOPLE STOP COMPARING US TO SWEDEN!

sorry to shout, but really! chalk and cheese. weathly middle class mainly caucasian versus socially and racially diverse UK

anyway, I dont begrudge a penny of my tax, and I am on 40%

every day I speak with my US/Kazakh/Chinese colleagues who dont even have an NHS, enough said

and as for people whinging that we give money to developing countries...words fail me.... cunts

TheUnMember · 28/05/2012 16:04

CAN PEOPLE STOP COMPARING US TO SWEDEN!

sorry to shout, but really! chalk and cheese. weathly middle class mainly caucasian versus socially and racially diverse UK

According to the last census the UK has a 90% caucasian population. The last Swedish census says Sweden has a 92% caucasian population.

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 16:10

i think more people would more happily pay (more) tax if we knew we were paying for a better Britain.

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 16:16

and we have no shared sense of identity, IMO.