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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel that having nearly half of your salary taken away is just not right?

877 replies

WinnieTheWho · 27/05/2012 10:38

I don't earn enough to pay tax & NI but my DH has a pretty good job & salary for which he works BLOODY hard. I was horrified to work out after last pay day that for EVERY £1 he earned, he only kept 60 pence. This is due to a combination of paying very high income tax and NI, as well losing all of his personal allowance because he might get a bonus at the end of the year! It just seems that if you work hard to get paid well and you are a PAYE taxpayer, the Government & HMRC will just shaft you from all angles. It just makes me wonder why we bother? So... AM I BEING UNREASONABLE? Confused

OP posts:
geegee888 · 28/05/2012 13:15

I do think in the UK we get a raw deal. It is a high proportion when you see it on your pay slip. And then you've still got to pay Council Tax (where I live this is nearly £200 per month for a 4 bedroom house), high fuel tax, road tax, high cost of living and goods, and the highest property prices in Europe (apart from Monaco). And no longer do you get in return free education or free dental care, as once was the case. No reduction in tax to compensate though.

But there are superfluous layers of government, local government services we don't need, huge waste, all of which seems to achieve the increase of more of the same...

I've been to Sweden (by coincidence am going again this weekend), I spent 2 weeks driving all around it. I was struck by the fact that there seemed to be a high proportion of old, rusty cars on the roads. Not that many 4 x 4s, which you would think would be useful. I also think the Swedes are quite honest, and not prone to malingering, and that socialism works well in smallish countries like that.

In the UK we have high taxes badly spent, where all it seems to achieve is a small layer of people doing well at the top of the pile and all the middle and lower layers lumped pretty much in together with their day to day standard of living, with little distinction between how hard you work.

Nevertooearlyforcake · 28/05/2012 13:15

My DH has to work twice as hard as I do, he is paid roughly half my wage - he's in a less lucrative profession (has a Phd then masters in a slightly different field so worked harder as well beforehand). I would never presume that salary correlated with effort required. Why don't you look at your household tax rate rather than just your DH's

Blu · 28/05/2012 13:15

The proportion doesn't matter if you can live, probably in quite a nice style, and get good value from all thise services for the whole of your life.

As to complaining that people who don't pay so much still get the services, well, they don't live such nice lives, they won't get as much in earnings related state pensions, and frankly, I am pleased that I don't live in a country where there is no support for the poor / unemployed because i wouldn't want to be surrounded by beggars who have to use the central reservation in roads as their toilet and knock on your car window in every traffic jam. That is what happens in New Delhi and doubtless other places with no state welfare. So, I'm happy to hpapy for that.

The other thing to bear in mind is that very often higher and highest rate tax payers are benefitting from the labour and making their profits from the lower paying tax payers and maybe even the non-tax payers in the case of profits.

Blu · 28/05/2012 13:17

geegee88, in a services ; contributions comparison to other countries, no we don't do badly at all!

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 13:21

The other thing to bear in mind is that very often higher and highest rate tax payers are benefitting from the labour and making their profits from the lower paying tax payers

i dont - i create well paid jobs - so please stop assuming that everyone who makes money is exploiting people

maybe even the non-tax payers in the case of profits.

you would have to be non dom. if i said to my accountant i did not want to pay tax he would fall off his chair laughing.

perceptionreality · 28/05/2012 13:21

'As to complaining that people who don't pay so much still get the services, well, they don't live such nice lives'

Exactly. I really dislike this contempt for the poor and suggestion that people who are not in a position to pay loads of tax shouldn't receive the benefits of the NHS etc.

Is it not the case that even in the US people pay lower taxes but need a job with health insurance - otherwise you're screwed basically.

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 13:23

'As to complaining that people who don't pay so much still get the services, well, they don't live such nice lives'

they dont have as much money, but they are likey to have more leisure, less demanding job etc.

QuintessentialShadows · 28/05/2012 13:27

goinggetstough HE at university level????

MrsHelsBels74 · 28/05/2012 13:28

Wasabi that's a ridiculous thing to say. I work part time for the NHS, it's a demanding job & when I'm not working I'm looking after our toddler....leisure time....what's that?

hardboiledpossum · 28/05/2012 13:28

I have not read all 24 pages of this thread yet so I am probably repeating what others have said. I am in favour for taxing the rich even more! In Scandinavian countries taxes are higher for the rich than in England. Their societies are much more balanced with the divide between rich and poor one of the smallest. The people are among the happiest in the world (UN happiness report) and crime rates the lowest, I do not think this is a coincidence.

perceptionreality · 28/05/2012 13:29

'but they are likey to have more leisure, less demanding job etc.'

What, people like nurses, police force, fire service? You think their jobs are not demanding? It's not possible to generalise - as I said earlier the reason some people earn so much is because somebody is prepared to pay them more than, say, a public sector worker.

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 13:31

i said likely not always!

bumbleymummy · 28/05/2012 13:32

Not necessarily Blu. A HE living in London could have a pretty crap lifestyle in comparison to a LE in a different part of the country. The bracket for HE starts at £34k which doesn't necessarily stretch that far if you have to live in a more expensive (and I'm not talking exclusive here) area.

bumbleymummy · 28/05/2012 13:33

Perception "Exactly. I really dislike this contempt for the poor and suggestion that people who are not in a position to pay loads of tax shouldn't receive the benefits of the NHS etc."

Who has said this?

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 13:33

i said likely not always!

e.g. generally the HT works longer hours in a more demanding role than a teacher...

giveitago · 28/05/2012 13:35

hardboiled.

Am with you but not that in these countries they have a generious benefits short period of time and then it's zero. The very rich in Sweden are not expected to support their poor indefinately.

Ormiriathomimus · 28/05/2012 13:37

Try being pleased that you don't pay any tax.

timetoask · 28/05/2012 13:38

I have never lived in sweden. How to the services compare to the UK?
Is childcare subsidised by the government or is it as ridiculously expensive as in the uk?
Do they have such huge demand for social housing?
How does their immigration levels compare to the uk?
What is the health system like?
What are the pensions like?
What is the education like?
What sort of maternity leave is available?
Are homes as expensive as in the uk?
Are leisure activities affordable? (I think they are too expensive in the uk)
Is transport affordable? (trains, buses)

AboutTheCarrot · 28/05/2012 13:42

I work BLOODY hard and earn pittance. And yet I never complain. Whereas you, who presumably have a lovely life with disposible income, are complaining.

WasabiTillyMinto · 28/05/2012 13:43

homes are much cheaper in SWE because there are many fewer people compared with the amount of land.

how different would the UK be is homes were cheaper? VERY but that doesnt really help with anything.

Blu · 28/05/2012 13:46

"i dont - i create well paid jobs - so please stop assuming that everyone who makes money is exploiting people"

Well, there's a massive generalisation, but take it personally if you must. I said 'very often' - though it is a general principle that employers pay their employees less and that in many companies a high proportion of the workforce would be basic rate taxpayers. The highest proportion of tax payers are basic rate - and it is presumably them that assist their employers in earning enough to pay higher rate tax. Of course higher rate tax payers often make huge contrbutions to the level of employment in the country, and that's good. But they do that, mostly, because it assists their own income. I don't assume that everyone who emplys someone is exploiting them, fgs, but that often, wealth is built on the labour of people who don't have as much. That is different.

"maybe even the non-tax payers in the case of profits.

you would have to be non dom. if i said to my accountant i did not want to pay tax he would fall off his chair laughing."

Read the context of my post. By non-tax payers I mean those who do nbot contribute by workking for the employer, but the poorer unemployed non-tax payers who, in the case of some companies contribute to profit by buying their services. the things that even poor non-taxed people have to buy - clothes, food, boiler-servicing etc - it all has a profit margin that benefits a shareholder or a self-employed tradesperson, or a CEO of a company or whoever.

This thread is very bitter, and beset with self interest. Look more widely - we benefit from a society in which everyone has some degree of security and living standard.,

bumbleymummy · 28/05/2012 13:47

Wasabi, I've been browsing Swedish properties all morning. It brings property porn to a whole new level! Grin

wordfactory · 28/05/2012 13:47

It is silly to compare us to Sweden.
There everyone pays higher taxes. They don't put a disproportionate burden on the wealthy.

giveitago · 28/05/2012 13:47

Didn't bush gloat just before the banking crash that they were at the point where americans wouldn't need any employment tax.

Goodness.
Time - our system looked up to the scandinavian system but it has changed and is probably fit for purpose.

I'm sure their immigration is pretty much the same as ours.

geegee888 · 28/05/2012 13:48

I might not mind seeing so much of my salary go in tax if I got really good services in return. I mean public services, available to everyone, before I am accused of being selfish. For example, really good public transport with the type of mainline rail and light suburban rail service which is standard in other European countries (there is no tube in my city, slow buses are the only form of public transport). Ditto excellent sports facilities which aren't unaffordable to all but the concession rates. Great roads would make me feel happier about paying high taxes too, and a government which didn't cream off ridiculous amounts in expenses they don't really need.

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