To feel that having nearly half of your salary taken away is just not right?

[WinnieTheWho]

I don't earn enough to pay tax & NI but my DH has a pretty good job & salary for which he works BLOODY hard. I was horrified to work out after last pay day that for EVERY £1 he earned, he only kept 60 pence. This is due to a combination of paying very high income tax and NI, as well losing all of his personal allowance because he might get a bonus at the end of the year! It just seems that if you work hard to get paid well and you are a PAYE taxpayer, the Government & HMRC will just shaft you from all angles. It just makes me wonder why we bother? So... AM I BEING UNREASONABLE?

Perception Some people are not as fortunate as others - they don't have the opportunities which enable them to earn lots - that does not mean they are lazy or don't work hard enough.

yes - but some people did make their own opportunities and why would they bother if they dont get to keep the rewards? we need people who drive themselves.

not everyone who pays a lot of tax was born with a sliver spoon!

It's not a case of who works hard and who doesn't.
It's a case of ensuring that the tax system is as effective as possible and that the state collects what it needs ie that the tax take is big enough.

What has been proved time and again in the UK is that when tax rates become too high, the actual tax take drops.

So if you make the rate too high to make a point you will actually negatively impact upon tax take which will negatively impact upon public serveises.

perception it's not about greed, it's about the mental tipping point what % one pays to the state.

For most of us there's a certain % that feels fine. Okay, we don't pay our tax bills while pumping our fists, but it still feels okay. Fair.

Once you get over that, it feels unfair.It's not about the amount one pays (for high earners this will always be much higher than low earners), it's about the % of every quid that you made, that you're allowed to keep.

Why should a pop star be more entitled than say a midwife who is working hard for the NHS for relatively little?

Lots of people work equally hard but some are lucky enough to be in jobs where people are prepared to pay more for what they do. That does not make them superior or more entitled or more deserving.

Beat me to it Whatme

Adele - I'm not singling her out, I have no grudge against Adele apart from her shite music, but she is a useful example.

She benefited from the presence of a tax payer funded welfare state when she was growing up (I think she grew up relatively poor in a single parent household) and was taking out more than she or her family were contributing. So when she hits the jackpot she suddenly starts bleating about paying to help others in the same circumstances she was once in.

The presence of a functioning welfare state, that helped to feed, house clothe her throughout her childhood is the very reason she is able to earn the amounts of money she now does.

There is a problem with handing over 50% of your earnings to tax, which is why there is so much tax evasion going on. Tony Blair only paid £350 000 in tax last year, which is an absolute joke compared to his earnings. He's not the only one doing it. I'm not surprised that people paying 50% are doing all they can to get out of it. I would not want to only take home half of what I have worked for, be that as a maid or a board director.

So do you think we should take 90% of her salary because she can afford it?

No one is saying that people deserve their wealth more than others.

Isnt there evidence that the flat tax rate actually decreases tax avoidance so they end up being able to collect more tax overall? I'm pretty sure I read an article about it somewhere...

Crossed with you perception.

It's not that she's more deserving. But she's not less deserving either. She should pay a % of her income as should the midwife. Obviously her payment will be hundreds of times greater, but as a % it will be fair.

It's when the state start sto say that you don't deserve to keep a half of what you earned that things feel wrong. That because you've been successful you somehow deserve to pay a greater % than someone less successful...

Why should a pop star be more entitled than say a midwife who is working hard for the NHS for relatively little?

its not about what either is entitled to, or superiority or deserving.

Adele makes music people like & will pay for. & vast numbers of people do.

AFAIK only 2 of those things (health and education) come out of general taxation. The rest are funded separately by CT and RT (not sure how much is ringfenced though

Councils get a grant from central government in addition to their council tax income. Road Tax hasn't existed since the 1920s, roads are maintained out of general taxation.

bumble there is a lot of eveidence of that. And a lot of evidence that when tax rates jump too high, tax take suffers. So it's utterly counter productive.

At the moment DH and I are pay 50% on our higher earnings, neither of us have a personal allowance and we both have to sort NI.

It does feel punitive.

Exactly wordfactory

Sorry - exactly was to your PP but your last one was good too! :)

Quint you mentioned a few pages back that:
And with university education, and all higher education in fact being free, and with low cost loans and grants from the state, everybody regardless of their background or their parents income, have a fair chance of a good education also.
Not true. Children of HE will not get any grants (fair enough maybe but they are surely independent adults) and their loans will not cover even their accommodation costs. Surely all DCs should be able to get a loan that covers their basic leaving expenses? So the HE get hit again...
I don't think that the OP is being unreasonably in commenting but without the tax paid by HE our country would be in more of a mess than it already is.

So do you think we should take 90% of her salary because she can afford it?

No one is saying that people deserve their wealth more than others.

No, I think that she should pay up and shut up. Stop being such a hypocrite.

Have not read the whole thread ( and maybe there is another one on thus point) but I read today there is an app you can download to see how much of your tax gets spent on what. If poepl use it to be informed where the money goes they might start thinking more about which lot of spendthrifts politicians they want in charge.

i dont think she is being hypocritical. she changed her mind.

I cant even be arsed to respond to a stooooooooooooooooooooooopid post like this

OP - as you go through the next few weeks make a list of every single thing that you use that is paid for or subsidised by the state.
Police, fire service, the whole of the NHS provision, schools and nurseries, roads, pavements, public parks, swimming pools, think about whether you want to live in a country that has any form of defence / armed services, future pension - including a basic pension for you based on no contributions, child benefit (though it sounds as if you will lose this next year).

Firthermore you will cointinue to have access to all these things for all the years after your DH retires and pays no more tax - say 20 or 30 years use of the NHS after retirement, police, fire service, parks etc.

With only one tax payer to contribute to all these services for how many people in your family, you may find that you are doing very well indeed from the taxes your DH pays.

So yes, YUBVU.

Well OP will get to use these services that her DH has paid into , but so will those who have never contributed a penny!

Exactly kilmuir. The OP isn't complaining about paying tax in general Blu - just such a high proportion.

Road Tax hasn't existed since the 1920s, roads are maintained out of general taxation

Obviously I mean whatever tax it is I pay every single year in order to get a tax disc for my car!

But if there were not people who are able to pay a higher rate of tax these services would not exist, surely.

Not necessarily perception. There seems to be evidence that the flat rate of tax makes tax evasion less likely so more tax ends up being collected.