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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NHS funded IVF for same-sex couples.

126 replies

oopsi · 22/05/2012 11:42

Further to the other thread, how do we justify same sax couples getting IVF treatment on the NHS?
This is not infertility, so nothing is medically 'wrong'.Should the NHS be funding it?

OP posts:
ReallyTired · 22/05/2012 15:58

"Yes, Grumpla, but if they were two men living together who really wanted a baby IVF wouldn't be the answer, so the logic is that if it is done for lesbians then the NHS should be funding surogacy for male couples."

Surogacy isn't really an option for anyone as surogate mothers aren't allowed to be paid in the UK. I think that surogacy is immoral as it can potentially screw up the surogate mother's mental health expecting her to give away a baby she has carried for nine months.

monkeymoma · 22/05/2012 16:20

so then should hetro couples try buying sperm online first before qualifying for IVF too?

Mrbojangles1 · 22/05/2012 16:25

and being to old is not medical grounds but we still give it

why should some 35 year old who could have had a baby but choose to he a high flyer instead, who now wants a baby but eggs have dried up have it and not a gay couple my view it

people should be made to pay at least half for it if you cant afford 2k you cant afford a child i know pwoplw who have cars worth more

nappyaddict · 22/05/2012 16:26

I thought the new guidelines are that IVF should only be offered to lesbian couples after 6 cycles of IUI or DI? If 6 cycles of IUI or DI haven't worked, one would presume there is a fertility issue and so IVF is now a medical need.

Bagofholly · 22/05/2012 16:38

Mrbojangles maternal age does have a medical impact. And your stunningly ignorant comment about women who left it too late because of their career - what about the sub fertility cases which are male factor, or not age related?

As for "afford", then we're back to arguing about who should pay what for what healthcare. Thankfully the NHS isn't means tested. You divvy.

Rockpool · 22/05/2012 16:40

No monkey because the man may have dodgy sperm but he is a valid voice in the whole IVF process.ICSI(and other treatments I suspect) can treat dodgy sperm so a man could still have his own child.To go straight to donor sperm for hetro couples would deny lots of men the chance to have their own child.

Magneto · 22/05/2012 16:50

I don't have 2k to spare but I can afford my child so I don't see your point there mrbojangles

HRHqueenofeverything · 22/05/2012 16:54

I think as long as the NHS can afford to fund it and don't have to cut back elsewhere it should be funded.

VictoriaWould · 22/05/2012 17:09

I've met a quite a few lesbian couples that have had babies. None of them have had IVF and most of them made their own arrangements about the donor sperm. Only 1 couple that i remember had even sought any help from the NHS and had annonamous donor sperm.

Annakin31 · 22/05/2012 17:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tholeon · 22/05/2012 18:26

Ah some of this makes me cross! Ivf is a medical treatment for some forms of infertility. It should be available on the basis of medical need and likelihood of success, not sexuality. People suffering from low sperm counts or blocked tubes bear no more responsibility for the well being of the planet or needs of would be adopted children than any other would be parents. Adoption can be a wonderful thing but is a separate matter entirely. End of. Surely..

creighton · 22/05/2012 19:51

Mrbojangles1 i would imagine that the reason that some women don't have children until they are over 35 is because they have not met the right partner. all this lazy cliched rubbish about highfliers is just rubbish. old and dried up! get over yourself. if a woman doesn't have a child by 35 is she just supposed to carry on working and lining your pockets with her taxes and listening to you being smug? if there is funding for ivf it should be offered to anyone who wants it and qualifies for it.

Whatmeworry · 22/05/2012 20:44

What happens if one is infertile and one is not, but the one who is fertile does not want to conceive the child?

hermioneweasley · 22/05/2012 20:49

I didn't think there was any NHS funding for fertility treatment for lesbian couples. Everyone I know who has gone the clinic route has paid.

OhdearNigel · 22/05/2012 20:50

I don't agree with IVF on the NHS, regardless of sexuality

OhdearNigel · 22/05/2012 20:50

Also, most lesbian couples would not require IVF, simply insemination

Ekpoma76 · 22/05/2012 21:11

Gay couples pay Tax.. Just like hetro... So why can't they be given the same service if needed.gastric band is more expensive than the ivf treatment but i don't see peoplecomplaining about that been offered on the nhs to mostly none tax payer as they are too over weight to work or just can't stopeatting to make them have a happy life and you think a gay couple that want ivf treatment to be happy parents don't deserve it... OMG get real

TalkinPeace2 · 22/05/2012 21:21

WONDERFUL comment on the Today programme the other morning.

"Unlike you hetero couples, we gays NEVER have accidental pregnancies - all of our babies are wanted."

hermioneweasley · 22/05/2012 21:24

Talkinpeace, that is true. All studies show that children of same sex parents have better life outcome and I have always suspected that is because they are all planned and wanted, whereas a cross section of kids of hetero couples would include kids who weren't planned, wanted and agonised over.

MrsHelsBels74 · 22/05/2012 21:36

I was 35 when I had my first child (luckily no fertility problems) but I wasn't chasing a high flying career, I was just waiting to meet the right partner.

Anyway, I was under the impression that IVF was for people with fertility problems, so sexuality shouldn't enter into it IMO. End of.

DuelingFanjo · 22/05/2012 21:37

"Unlike you hetero couples, we gays NEVER have accidental pregnancies - all of our babies are wanted."

that's a massive generalisation on their part though. Many many 'Heteros' never have an unplanned pregnancy.

Though I have had both, an unplanned pregnancy and IVF, probably this means I am the devil or something.

Devora · 22/05/2012 21:52

There's a few people on this thread that should actually go and read the NICE guidelines before throwing in their two pennorth. There's no suggestion that fertile lesbians get given priority for IVF over heterosexuals with a clinical need, just that sexuality shouldn't bar someone from accessing NHS IVF (as it does now).

When I was having fertility problems I thought at one stage I might be going through early menopause. I asked my GP to do some blood tests to check. He said no, he didn't agree with helping lesbians to get pregnant. I said I wasn't asking him to get me pregnant, just check what was going on with these symptoms as I feared they might mean either premature menopause or even ovarian cancer. He said he wouldn't help but would refer to the fertility service at the local hospital. They refused to even see me, on the grounds that I am a lesbian.

It turned out that, rather than refer me for investigation of symptoms, my GP had written I was a lesbian who wanted help getting pregnant. (In fact, I was clear I wasn't going to go the IVF route - it was definitely investigation I wanted, not treatment.) So the hospital refused to see me, because they were entitled to refuse treatment to lesbians.

I was stuck in the position where I had clinical symptoms that needed investigating, and no medical professional would even take a clinical history or talk to me about what might be going on. THAT is the sort of situation that should be changed by these guidelines.

Oh, and klaxon blaring for the inevitable appearance on this thread of the 'they should adopt' comment. I truly think that no-one should be allowed to say this unless they have adopted at least one child themselves. It is such a daft and insensitive thing to say and I've never met an adoptive parent who would say it.

stripesnotspots · 22/05/2012 21:55

Gay couples pay their taxes and NI just like everyone else, therefore should be allowed the same choice of treatments as heties. END OF. Your assumptions about fertility treatment lesbians are astounding, and ignorant. Most couple, straight and gay, receive IVF for the same reason - fertility issues.
People under our tax system contribute to a pot of money which is used for all sorts of circumstances. Lots of gays and non-parents fund the education of YOUR kids, YOU might fund IVF treatment that you'll never need, I pay towards social housing & unemployment benefits that I have never claimed, I work in the private sector and pay towards public pensions etc etc etc
The NHS is for everyone. Get used to the idea.

oopsi · 22/05/2012 21:55

Ideally everyone would have access to every treatment, but that is not the case and choices have to be made.So who would you let die, suffer pain, suffer severely reduced quality of life to fund IVF for people who don't want to have heterosexual sex.

OP posts:
Devora · 22/05/2012 21:56

DuellingFanjo, it's a trite and stupid thing to say. Along with, "But their children are so wanted and planned for, they must be wonderful parents".

Of course lesbians sometimes have unplanned pregnancies.

Oh, and as a lesbian who took six years to get my first child (through donor insemination) and three years to get my second (though adoption) I don't think my children are any more loved and cherished than others. I don't think I'm an especially good mother. In fact, I KNOW I"m not an especially good mother. But I'm not an especially bad one either, and there is no good reason for barring me from the full range of fertility services available to heterosexuals.