NHS funded IVF for same-sex couples.

[oopsi]

Further to the other thread, how do we justify same sax couples getting IVF treatment on the NHS?
This is not infertility, so nothing is medically 'wrong'.Should the NHS be funding it?

who not you - sorry

If there are no underlying fertility issues there is no need to use IVF for pregnancy in same sex couples. There are methods such as DI and IUI. So same sex couples would only need IVF if there was a fertility issue ie a medical problem. Which is what the NHS is for.

YABVU- what sex the couple is shouldn't matter, we all deserve a chance to be a parent no matter what relationship we are in.
Its the 21st century, times have changed get with the times

No one heard of human rights around here?!

Who is anyone to decide who can and can't have children?!

Making IVF more socially acceptable and accessible for anyone is a good thing.

In my area NO ONE can get it on the NHS. If I live 2miles away if I needed it I could. Maternity care on the other hand is cross PCT boundary. Its absurd.

The situation is ridicilous, and for the most part, has nothing to do with anyone's sexuality. People are ignorant in thinking that IVF is the only way to conceive by "non-traditional" methods. Having a pop at same sex couples just speaks volumes about the OP's knowledge level rather than the actual issue.

There just shouldn't be any discrimination about it on the basis of anything - be it postcode or sexuality - medical need, likihood of success and a sensible upper age limit alone should be the factors that are considered. (Which isn't the current limit as women can naturally have children over 39). NICE's draft recommendation of 42 seems a sensible and reasonable balance between risk, effectiveness and woman actually finding out they need IVF.

Its worth pointing out that infertility can lead to psychological issues - a medical need - which in turn has financial implications. Everyone always looks at these things at face value and not at the knock on costs that might be incurred.

No doubt many infertile het women could get pregnant by some random bloke down the pub, so they haven't got medical grounds either

If they're infertile, surely they are unable to get pregnant by normal means?

Or do you mean their male partner is infertile?

Yes getting pregnant via a one night stand would be tricky if infertile

There are all kinds of issues with sperm donation. I expect the number of lesbian couples who want children and cannot concieve with donor insemination is a tiny minority. Single women are allowed donor insemination too.

Plenty of hetrosexual couples have babies in questionable circumstances, yet no one sits in judgment on them. A loving lesbian couple make excellent parents.

I guess I have a different opinion to most in that I don't agree with creating life through donated sperm or eggs. My reason is based on the experiences my friend went through, who was adopted and continues to suffer terribly by not knowing who her biological parents are/were.

There are plenty of children already here who need parenting, so if you want to be a parent why not adopt? I think the focus of creating life should be based on the needs of the children created and not the parents. With that, I think the adoption process needs to be updated. Here in New Jersey I live one town from Newark where there are lots of children in care and eligible for adoption but it is easier for DH and I to adopt a child from Vietnam. It makes no sense at all. I presume the adoption process is just as onerous in the UK.

Grumpla the OP isn't actually that offensive she is asking questions that open up debate on the issue, so I think your rudeness is totally over the top. Or do you just think that we should make decisions about where NHS funding goes without questioning whether that allocation in resources is the most appropriate based on your family's needs?

What would your view be if it was your sister and her husband waiting for fertility treatment who were being told that they would now have access to less treatment because this waiting list had grown as there were now more people on it due to the automatic inclusion of same-sex couples? Would you be cheering on the OP for supporting our own myopic view of the world?

This is actually a really interesting subject for debate and I'm not sure what I think about it, other than it will get very complicated, and that there is a lot of scope for getting it very wrong. I mean how do you make the NHS provision of fertility treatment fair for three very different types of couples such different needs?

How many couples are you talking about. Lets assume that 10% of people are gay. Prehaps half of those people settle into a long term relationship and actually want children.

If as a pompeous religious prat you consider that homosexually is an uncurable disease then surely the NHS should help people over come obsticles. Ie. the fact that if you are homosexual its harder to have children can be overcome.

Being less of a pompeous religious prat, you could argue that people have no choice in being a lesbian. Its a bit like you don't choose whether you are left or right handed. Surely we should be helping lesbians live life to full, including having kids if that is what the couple wants.

I mean how do you make the NHS provision of fertility treatment fair for three very different types of couples such different needs?

Give everyone a go each on the house. It all boils down to infertility, the sexual preferences are irrelevant.

I don't quite understand why a male-male couple would need IVF - as they'd be using a presumably fertile surrogate?

Yes, I meant woman infertile due to male partner being infertile, sorry - not clear
Mosman @ 13.11 - 'unless disabled' - you what? Do you mean therefore exempt from paying tax?

Hmmm I'm an IVF mum that had to pay my own bills(which we still feel 8 years later) but I'm a bit not sure re NHS for gay couples purely because they're not infertile and can get pg without IVF.

You can buy sperm on line and erm well do the deed yourself.I know a couple who have done this twice. Obviously if it doesn't work after 2 years then yes but really they should make it easier for gay couples to get pg without IVF first.

reallytired um, because I am a lesbian with 2 children and know lots of other lesbians with children who have felt pressurised into IVF, usually because of financial pressures (e.g. once NHS options have run out) - the success rate is higher. I was a patient at a clinic and whilst my preferred option was IUI, the consultant was very keen indeed to push me into IVF. I declined, precisely because of the physical hardships it involves.

Both our daughters were conceived using fresh sperm, inseminated at home, at the right point in my partner's cycle. But this takes co-ordination, commitment (from all parties) - and this can be very difficult to fit around work commitments etc. I am always happy to explain this to anyone who asks.

Grumpla I wish you sister and her wife all the best, and hope that they have a happy outcome very soon. It's unbelievably stressful even when it goes to plan.

Sorry buy sperm online that in no way sounds like a good plan!

Donation isn't exactly an easy route either, a single friend of mine tried that route and there are waiting lists, she was unsuccessful in making the front of the que and is now choosing to adopt a child.

why does it need justifying? they can have my taxes for it - pay it forward.

Why not softly softly?

I think they should set up clinics where you go in buy your sperm and get inseminated there from a professional who is more likely to get a couple pg without the need for IVF.£200 and bobs your uncle.

rockpool - isn't that what most clinics do? most of them do offer donated sperm. It's very difficult indeed to use sperm from a known donor through a clinic (donor has to be tested and then re-tested after 6 months - which is only proper, but it's a long time to wait)

I don't know Rhet. If they do then great,all for IVF after a couple of years of trying for gay couples.

I'd have thought if you do the diy option online surely it's not a bad thing to do if from a company that screens etc.

oopsi I initiially thought that your question was possibly due to a genuine interest/curiosity about NHS funding, but your "not wanting to have sex with a man" statement shows how woefully uneducated you are, in that you are assuming that penile in vaginal sex and IVF are the ONLY options someone wishing for a child have.

I suggest that you pop over to the lesbian and gay parents forum here on mumsnet, or conduct a simple web search to educate yourself.

You didn't just start a thread on nethuns about this did you OP? :)

What would your view be if it was your sister and her husband waiting for fertility treatment who were being told that they would now have access to less treatment because this waiting list had grown as there were now more people on it due to the automatic inclusion of same-sex couples?

My view would be EXACTLY the same. Infertile couples are infertile couples and I don't get to jump the queue, or take more shots on the NHS, simply because I am hetero.

Females don't get IVF unless there is proven infertility - that won't cbange. Lesbian women can be infertile, as can hetero women and they both deserve exactly the same amount of help to overcome this.

Gay men are a different story as, of course, they can't carry a child so presumably if they go for surrogacy they'll be chosing fertile surrogates.

BTW new(ish) legislation about sperm donor's children being able to find out about them after age 18 has led to a drastic reduction in donor sperm.

Op are you actually for real?. Yabvu

Yes, Grumpla, but if they were two men living together who really wanted a baby IVF wouldn't be the answer, so the logic is that if it is done for lesbians then the NHS should be funding surogacy for male couples.