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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder who is more hated, Blair or Thatcher?

309 replies

WetAugust · 20/05/2012 20:19

Seems that Blair is planning a return to UK politics.

OP posts:
PigletJohn · 20/05/2012 23:48

Thatcher.

wendythetrampwhowasborntorun · 21/05/2012 00:27

OK, girls, time to play counter-factuals (= history + some what if 's):

  What if we still had the "good old days" when strikes were called immediately on an open "show of hands", with shop stewards calling the result whilst photographing the crowd for dissenters?

 What if our economy was still based around a set of nationalised industries, none of which ever made a profit ( but which since having been privatised have overall emphatically done so)?

 Most scarily, what if we had allowed the Soviet Union to scare us out of the Pershing Project, thus potentially swapping the collapse of the SU ( a good thing) for US decoupling from Europe (potentially a very bad thing)?

Mrs T's problem in public perception is peculiarily British & peculiarily class-ridden, and is based on her petit bourgeois roots:

  To the <span class="italic">bourgeoisie</span> & above, she was a rather brassy counter-jumper, although one that some of them (mistakenly) thought they could use to their own advantage.

 To those of the working classes who had no aspiration to better themselves, she was a threat to their soft access to state benefit (although she underestimated their tenacity...)

After all, if she was such a universally loathesome character, why was she so electorally successful in a reasonably democratic society?

Also, given the recent MP's expenses scandal, don't forget she refused to claim £19 for an ironing board for No 10 on the grounds she needed to buy a new one anyway: I'll forgiive a politician almost anything, just so long as they are honest... Grin

PigletJohn · 21/05/2012 00:34

"Mrs T's problem in public perception is peculiarily British & peculiarily class-ridden, and is based on her petit bourgeois roots"

no, that is not why she is so widely hated and despised. You are misrepresenting the argument in order to disagree with what you have just invented.

That's a common, but well known and dishonest, debating trick.

manicbmc · 21/05/2012 00:40

I don't care about her roots. I care about her ideals and her policies.

I dislike Blair but I really hate Thatcher.

SinisterBuggyMonth · 21/05/2012 00:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilovesooty · 21/05/2012 01:09

I care about her ideals and her policies

I agree.

ComposHat · 21/05/2012 01:28

Thatcher - hth!

And compos - can I come?

Of course you may: the Pie will be vegetarian and I'm afraid it'll only be Cava and not the real deal.

Mind you if Dave and co continue with their attempts to drive all but their rich mates into penury, we may have to resort to Lambrini.

LadyRabbit · 21/05/2012 01:56

Blair. Blair. Blair.
And I can remember Thatcher.
Perhaps we are removed by geographical distance from the utter hell Blair's foreign policy has meant for Iraqi civilians, and Lord knows what hell his Middle Eastern 'Peace' envoy services mean for Palestine.
But on a feminist and LGBT front the man is a f*ing disaster. He converted to Catholicism. You don't do that if you're an a la carte Catholic. You do that if:

  1. You think gay people will go to hell.
  2. You believe women should not be allowed to administer holy sacraments, thus demoting them to a second-class existence within the church.
  3. You are anti-abortion.
  4. You are anti-contraception
Need I go on?

Thatcher was a f*ing fairy Godmother in comparison.

And I am a Labour party member. And I am so so sorry about Blair.

JosieZ · 21/05/2012 01:58

We had a coal fire(which was sole heating in house) in the 1970s and I remember polish (I think it was) coal being much better than british coal - smaller even chunks and burned really well. British coal was varied always with some dust and not as hot. Probably the imported coal was cheaper too.

Also remember the dockers and car workers striking and striking again and again. Walking out for this or that reason.

That was why a conservative gov got in and stayed in I think.

precariouslybalanced · 21/05/2012 02:44

Thatcher, because without her we wouldn't have had Blair.

Agree with whoever said upthread that he is a Thatcher's child through and through, although I do believe that Thatcher at least was a principled politician (I just didn't agree with any of them). Blair is a toxic mix of audacity and hubris, and profoundly lacking in principles.

lisaro · 21/05/2012 02:49

Margaret Thatcher didn't make millions by illegally invading another country. She didn't murder our troops and innocent civilians and then live a smug holier than thou lifestyle on the back of it. How anybody can even begin to compare the two is beyond me.

Dolcelatte · 21/05/2012 03:59

Blair, because of Iraq.

Thatcher aroused strong emotions - whether you hated her or admired her. However, she was democratically elected and had a mandate to govern.

Having said that, I have seen at first hand what became of the mining community in South Yorkshire after the strike - and it is tragic - whole villages, families and communities decimated. Was the mining industry viable long term? I don't know, but surely there had to be a better way than what amounted to civil war.

Nor do I think Arthur Scargill acted in the miners' best interests - another individual with a large ego who has feathered his nest on the back of those whom he was meant to protect.

sashh · 21/05/2012 04:49

However, she was democratically elected
Sort of, she would not have been in power had she not had the vote from expats living in South Africa - she supported Aparteid.

For a lot of the time she was in power there werre no conservative MPs in Scotland.

I think she was an evil egotist (not sure if she still is, with having alhziemers)

glenthebattleostrich · 21/05/2012 05:18

Thatcher once referred to Blair as her natural heir.

I despise Thatcher for destroying the North. The tyne lost mining, steel and the ship yards. Basically anyone who employed. But that was fine (as stated by Lamont) because the south was doing fine.

Yes the unions were too powerful but to destroy millions of peoples lives because of her personal hatred of the unions is unjustifiable. She is quite simply evil.

And please stop refering to Blair as Labour. He is New Labour (i.e. mini Tory Party)

Glittertwins · 21/05/2012 06:12

Blair. A lying, two faced champagne socialist who was only in it to milk what he could get. His lot have sold us down the river with a mismanaged economy built on debt. Want something you can't afford - just get a loan or a credit card!

Whatmeworry · 21/05/2012 07:54

I think history will not treat Blair kindly, lying your way into war AND getting fuck all out of it is bad news. I'm amazed anyone would vote for him!

With Thatcber I think people forget how crap a state the country was in, her problem was that she took the privatization ideology too far with electricity, water, rail etc - all natural monopolies - and not enough safeguards in the Big Bang.

orangeandlemons · 21/05/2012 08:21

What if we still had the "good old days" when strikes were called immediately on an open "show of hands", with shop stewards calling the result whilst photographing the crowd for dissenters?

I actually quite like the sound of the first 1/2 of that. It might keep Osborne's hands off my pension

orangeandlemons · 21/05/2012 08:29

I'm a northerner too. Agree that the Tory's have no idea about how much they are loathed in the north as a result of Thatch (not that they care)

MaggieMaggieMaggie!.OutOutOut

Also agree Blair was a tawt about the Iraq war. But he did bring Labour to power, and keep them in for a long time. I know they were kind of mini tory Grin but they were better than big tory

flatpackhamster · 21/05/2012 08:29

sashh

Sort of, she would not have been in power had she not had the vote from expats living in South Africa - she supported Aparteid.

Oh, now there has to be some actual statistical proof of that claim.

holmesgirl · 21/05/2012 08:40

Thatcher without question for me.

I actually quite like Blair, despite Iraq. I believe he was misguided.

Clawdy · 21/05/2012 08:53

Agree with everything holmesgirl said. Thatcher is unforgiveable.

Dawndonna · 21/05/2012 08:53

A cum hoc ergo propter hoc argument is hardly valid with regard to this.

Edam I think I love you!
Grin

PS. Southerner.

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/05/2012 14:20

interesting that thatcher is blamed for 'destroying steel' when steel is a very profitable industry here, producing as much as it ever has - it employs fewer people, however, due to increased mechanisation. blame the silicon chip.

also the housing shortage deepened greatly under 13 years of labour - they made it much much harder to build new stock than before. Blame Bair for that one!

LineRunner · 21/05/2012 14:34

Where's 'here', EdlessAllen?

LadyBeagleEyes · 21/05/2012 14:43

It was Thatcher that sold of all of the housing stock though, to make everybody a 'homeowner'. But they didn't actually build any more.
Now ordinary people are being charged ridiculously high rents by private landlords.
That is still the surviving part of the Thatcher regime.
I'm lucky enough to live in a HA home.
I don't have the choice to buy, but if I did there is no way I would do it. The whole You have to own your own Home put so many people into debt.
We lost so many council houses because of her.