to think a biological child is not a right

[Aribura]

and the NHS should not fund IVF in favour of vital medications for already existing people e.g. cancer drugs being funded?

I'm feeling masochistic this evening and am looking forward to munching on some biscuits and getting my ass handed to me.

Eurochick good luck, you may not find it as difficult or painful as it can be described.

MrsDeVere it is a crass argument and thank you for pointing out exactly why. You must have missed the 'why not adopt' post.

Despite my little joke , i do believe that IVF should be funded . There are funds available if only the NHS would stop wasting it on paying people to work out how to spend less . Our trust paid someone £100,000 to tell us what to do , the trust ignored his findings !

YABU because the NHS is about quality of life, not just saving/prolonging it.

I was thinking about this the other day with the new prostate cancer drug that gives sufferers 3 extra months of life. I was (mis)diagnosed with cancer last year and it was a type that kills very quickly, typically within a year of diagnosis and with a survival rate of less than 3%. Even though I was terrified, I knew that if it came to it, I would prefer to die earlier than to hang onto every shred of life by my fingernails and lose my dignity in the process and that there was a limit to the number and type of interventions I would agree to. I know that was just me in my particular situation and people make their own choices, but for 3 months at £3000 a month, how many people's lives will actually be enhanced by it? I'm talking myself in circles here but my basic point is that everyone must die at some point, and to me it is more important that the life I have is happy and healthy than to string out a miserable, painful condition to the edges of medical science.

Hopefully the OP hasn't returned due to something excruciating and upsetting happening to her.

Posts like that are horrible Barbies, and make you sound no better than the person you are talking about.

oops, my post should have read £30k a year (not a month) .

mmmm, have to say I have been reflecting on this ...
and i have changed my mind !
i guess people who went through ivf aren't more grateful, or those kids more special, its not that,
i think my view comes from an underlying assumption about how sad it is that some kids are born into families where they are mistreated etc..
I dont know, kids of fred west or whatever,
the injustice of it. Nice people want / cant have kids.
evil ones or indefferent ones get them
I used to wish every new years, every chrstmas, every birthday, every time i went into church, please let me have a baby ..
and when you are that desperate, sometimes those that have, seem not grateful enough, or too smug!!
I now realise its the way infertility twists your mind ...
sorry to have caused any offence x

I understand you, Bumdrop. X x

Did this help with your homework OP?

I'm infertile.

The best fertility brains in the UK combined couldn't get me pregnant despite many painful procedures including (but not limited to) IVF. My mother was diagnosed with "terminal" cancer the day my final IVF failed (my, that was a jolly day as I took her to her appointment).

When you're at loose end in future OP, maybe you'd like to pop over to tea and watch us argue over which of us deserved our treatment most that week. Man, you'd be entertained for weeks over it.

No-one has a right to have a child; but as a society, we have a duty to look after our communal children. Fostering +/- adoption is a fabulous route to parenthood.

I teach in a special school for children with severe emotional & behavioural problems. Several of them are in care, and many more should be. I have along & secret wish-list of the ones I would love to adopt, but know that it would never work with my own large-ish family: but when my DCs are grown up ...

I really think that the bond of giving a child a new start in life can be as intense and rewarding as the bond of conceiving, bearing and giving birth to them; and one day I hope to find out.

Can't be arsed to read thread, but presumably OP you're not infertile?

but Wendy, why didn't you think about adopting before having your own large-ish family?

And there it is....
FFS
I really do hope you will find out how wonderful adoption is Wendy but if you do you will also find out that it is NOT the same as having a birth child.

Which is why it is not an 'instead of' ivf.

Thanks for that reminder of rights and duties Wendy.

I'm wondering whether you're insinuating that those who face fertility challenges have a duty to adopt?

Finding it really odd that OP has thrown this stupid and inconsiderate thread onto Mumsnet and then legged it...

my (adopted) child has a right to a parent who doesn't consider him to be a duty

When I was growing up, our (rather whacky) next-door neighbour used to say "Never piss on a hornet's nest". Now I know why:

  <strong>Fanjo</strong>  My best friend was adopted, so from about age 8 I assumed I would adopt: getting pregnant was a real surprise...  And if I had not got pregnant regularly & easily, then yes I would certianly have seen adoption as an option.

 <strong>Mrs dV</strong> Never said it was the same; but looking at my best friend growing up, I don't think her (adoptive) parents loved her any less than my (natural) parents loved me.  In fact, she sometimes said to other people (never me, thank god) "Your parents <strong>had</strong> to keep you; mine <strong>chose</strong> to keep me.  She is now a prominent diplomat.

 <strong>Holly</strong>  Of coursr there is no duty to adopt; but surely, there comes a time when it is a more valuable option than repeated IVF?  <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Confused" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/build/assets/confused-DVrVQwAF.png">

When is that, Wendy?

I don't really know where I stand on this tbh. We have two girls and long for a 3rd but that's not possible.
However, the news that NiCE are refusing to find the chemo dh has put the wind up us we are lucky he is still allowed it but the thoughts that someone else won't and may die because £44k a year is too much for a life makes me and

I guess you never know the feeling of longing for a child and not being able to have one, unless you have been there.
I would rather money went to new life than to those throwing it away on drugs an drink.

" And if I had not got pregnant regularly & easily, then yes I would certianly have seen adoption as an option."

Can you see the silliness of this statement?

"Finding it really odd that OP has thrown this stupid and inconsiderate thread onto Mumsnet and then legged it..."

Oh it happens... they're a troll, a journalist or someone looking for help with an essay. The rest of us have had an interesting discussion though :)

This thread just confirms that my opinion of you is correct. I have been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt or just ignoring your posts until now... but really. Just stop stirring and causing grief all over the boards. Your attitude is nasty.

I think unless you are in the situation you don't know what you would do.

adoption is a very crueling process, with your private life being taking into every step of the way.

my cousion was asked a million question, even the childcare she and her husband would use once she returned to work.

was going to adopt a 2nd child but her 2nd child was a result of an unplanned pregnancy due to pure luck