To think people who say that they wouldn't have children if they couldn't afford to educate them privately are ...

[seeker]

.....bonkers?

And before anyone says that nobody has ever said that, there have been plenty of threads on here with people saying they stopped at one, or advising people not to have a 3rd because they can't afford private school for more. So presumably they wouldn't have had any if they could not send them to private school.

What I was thinking about when I started this thread was whether there really were people who think a child would rather not be born than be state educated. I didn't think there could be - but I now realise that there are. I find that staggering. And depressing.

Oh and in answer to a couple of completely irrelevant questions. Yes I could probably afford private education for mine. No, there are no circumstances in
which I would.

Beyond basic requirements, I do think that the most important things a child needs are very cheap or free. And yes, I do think private education is a life style choice available to the well off. Like having a pony. And if you can afford private education you are well off. Whether you think you are or not. Which is absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

..and there's nothing wrong with anyone making that choice, seeker.

In our case an accidental DC3 would be privately educated too, it would mean that other things wouldn't happen, that's all.

We're not particularly well off and our DC's pals' parents aren't either...well apart from those with singletons :o

its a preachey do as i say thread
tub thumping at its worst

We are stopping at two for financial reasons mostly. Pretty much completely to do with lifestyle. I like to travel, 4 people get the middle row on a plane, 4 people can book a hotel room with two double beds, 4 people can squeeze into the smaller rental car and so on. Those advantages outweigh the advantages of having a 3rd child in my opinion.

We could afford to privately educate both the boys if we had to but three would be a stretch, and university fees are certainly completely sorted for 2 but not 3. The time may come where I decide again to use a private school, I like having that option, a 3rd child would make that decision much harder.

I do like that according to MN I get to feel horribly smug though, I mean I could use private school but don't, so this of course makes me completely righteous. The fact that we used our money to buy into an excellent area with great schools isn't apparently relevant because the important thing is that they are at state schools and not private.

I shall tell my friends who live in crappy areas that the most important thing is sending their kids to state, after all I do it so it must be correct, no? Or do you think they will tell me to fuck off from my position of privilege and still do whatever they can for their kids much the same as I do for mine?

You don't need any reason to not have children simply I don't want to is enough, there is no justification needed, nothing at all. No one is harmed if someone decides not have to children, plenty of people are hurt when people are created for selfish and short sighted reasons though.

Of course you don't have to give a reason for why you have the number of children you do. But if you do give a reason on a discussion forum then it's up for discussion, surely? And if that reason is better not born than state educated, then there is certainly a discussion to be had!

Nope, doesn't matter. Have a discussion all you like but it is a bit bonkers saying any reason for not having a kid is bonkers.

No reason for not having kids is bonkers or depressing or sad. None, I can't think of one.

I can however think of lots and lots of reasons why people do have kids that are bonkers and depressing and sad.

most people consider ability to afford family when planning size of family
if you live in a 2bed property with no chance of moving and unable to increase earnings then its pretty likely this will be determining factor in family size

just because a woman is capable of having many children doesnt mean she shouldn't consider linking family size to expenditure and lifestyle preference.

I would enjoy a 3rd child immensely. But not as much as I enjoy staying at the Sheraton in interesting countries.

Or lying by the pool at a Disney hotel while the kids go on the rollercoasters, or having a spare bedroom for when we have guests, or having a playroom for the boy's stuff so it isn't all over the house, or getting a dog, or or or or. These things are more important to me than a 3rd children, for some people private education is more important to them than any child or a second or a third.

It doesn't matter if that makes me selfish, the 3rd children doesn't exist, they are therefore not being hurt by any of these things.

Excuse the use of the word 'children' where it should have been child, I am mid morning coffee, full grammar will be resumed shortly.

You beat me to it everlong. Are we talking about the opinion of a person that does not exist? OP you said earlier you didn't have more due your age. By your thinking that not really a reason there is ivf, surrogates, adoption. What about your potential dcs. What would their opinion knowing you could afford to have them but chose not to. Its the most bizarre argument I have ever heard.

seeker what if the reason was re University fees instead of school fees- i.e. If I have 2 children I can pay their tuition fees, but if I have 3 they'll all have to pay themselves and start adult life £27k in debt", or alternatively "If I have 2 kids I can give them a deposit on a flat, but if I have 3 I can't"?

At the end of the day, the more children you have, the less each one gets. Fact. Parents have to decide where the cut off is and where that will vary from parent to parent, depending on their personal . I generally find that parents don't want their kids to be materially worse off than they were, whether that's rational or not.

It's really nice to pretend that kids are happy with one pair of shoes and that they don't need to be able to go to football, or go on holiday etc, but surely if you take that to the end point, you're saying that a subsistence existence is fine and dandy, when we all know that it's actually really shit.

Also, I don't know any children who had at least one sibling who actively resent not having had more. I also know as many only's who are happy about it as who aren't.

Family dinner last might so missed all but the first bit of this thread.

but I am weeping with laughter at seeker telling posters they will die if they mention her appeal to get her son into grammar school.

Die?????!!!!!!!?????

I'm not personally interested in private education, but I suspect most of us have some kind of financial idea at the back of our heads which does at least influence our family planning. For us it was being able to travel abroad and visit family. For others it might be being able to handle a mortgage or even whether you can manage with an ordinary family car. Not sure if this is more or less sad than private education. To me, they all sound equally sad when you phrase them like the OP.

Well the question is, does one more person largely benefit or disadvantage the rest of humanity and the planet as a whole? Unfortunately, it's impossible to say, because they might solve the cold fusion problem and save humanity from choking on fossil fuels, or they might become the world's most prolific genocidal maniac. Assuming they're Joe Average, then they slightly disadvantage humanity and the planet, so there should be no prizes for having kids at all.

Word factory, my hyperbole was not directed at people who mention my appeal. It was directed to people, who, in direct contradiction to what I have actually said on the subject, insist that I was devastated that he failed the 11+.

It is actually entirely the responsible thing to do, to limit your family to one which you can afford to raise in the way you want.

God knows, MN has enough threads criticising those who have multiple children and expect the state to pick up the tab!

However, on a personal level I agree with the OP, in that private education would not be a necessity or priority for me. Not everyone feels the same though, particularly if they were privately or grammar school educated themselves- sometimes parents in that situation feel almost obliged to put their kids through the same system. We have friends who were privately educated themselves and are using private for their kids, I do feel in a sense a little sorry for them that they feel pressure to do this, but I would never feel its not their right. If they feel their family life would be less good using state schools then it's actually the logical thing to do to limit their family to what's affordable

Yawn. Again.

seeker your reasoning for saying it, doesn't stop my laughter I'm afraid.

You have turned yourself into a figure that no one can take seriously, like a character from The Simpsons .

But I thank you for it!

Today promised to be a horrid start to the week: rain, hangover, DH already gone to the airport, DD starting exams.

Your post has proper tickled me...

Wordfactory

seeker i agree with you totally....when i seen all the comments yesterday i was dumbfounded...

but it goes to show you one thing...there are people out there who will do anything to ensure their dc "are in the right social circle and can connect with them"

their choice at the end of the day...but i am happy with my working class ideoplogy, my working class family and a husband and children, grandchildren that love me dearly...

i dont see my child as a gateway to social acceptance...

i would rather be skint than have morals and ideologies of some ppl on here

Its good that you feel that way doormat, because I would do most things to avoid being skint.

Different strokes etc.

Luckily, I also get to have the great social circle, the good friends and the warm loving supportive family, because actually wealthy does not automatically mean lonely/unhappy/unethical.

Nobody should have children they don't want, doesn't matter why they don't want them, just the not wanting them is enough. It is never selfish to not have children, not ever.

morloth i said i would RATHER be skint...

and tbh that thread was despicable..alot of ppl ganging up on OP, telling her to not have dc3 but work to send her dd2 to private..

The other thread is a bit more complicated than just whether to have another child or send the children private though. Waaaay more complicated.

This thread is about whether people are crazy if they don't share seeker's priorities.