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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

19 years for child rape

115 replies

thebody · 09/05/2012 13:26

Aibu to think this is disgraceful??? Child rape,

Should be life.

OP posts:
PavlovtheCat · 10/05/2012 14:08

grimma i am only saying it as the reasons for offending, what they get from it is very different depending on who they are abusing, and this whether or not counselling, drugs, whatever would work or not. You could give drugs to a paedophile and stand some hope of reducing the risk of further offending. With these criminals, that would not work as it is not sexual desire that motivates them, not ultimately.

TheBigJessie · 10/05/2012 14:24

Pavlov Thanks for the clarification. I just read the talk of deporting earlier on, and made a huge assumption.

pumpkinsweetie · 10/05/2012 14:37

Adolescent or not Pavlov they are still peadophiles as they were under age!

TheBigJessie · 10/05/2012 15:02

Pumpkin Pavlov is using paedophile in its strict, technical sense, not the colloquial usage. A paedophile is sexually attracted to the pre-pubescent. In terms of raw numbers, that is under 12, IIRC..

These men raped under-age girls, but they were adolescent. It's NOT a mitigating factor, but it is a distinction to make.

TheBigJessie · 10/05/2012 15:05

Oh, and I don't think pavlov thinks it's a mitigating factor, either.

GrimmaTheNome · 10/05/2012 15:09

It makes a difference in the motivation and treatment. Being attracted to pre-pubescent children is abnormal. Being attracted to post-pubescent youngsters isn't, even if it is illegal here (remember some countries have different age of consent - its somewhat arbitrary).

Trafficking women of any age is illegal anyway, isn't it?

OhdearNigel · 10/05/2012 15:30

I agree with those saying that raping a 15 year old is quite clearly not paedophilia. At 15 they would be sexually mature and able to bear children.

PavlovtheCat · 10/05/2012 16:09

thebigjesse its absolutely not a mitigating factor. Not one bit. It just means that how they view the victims are different, and therefore the nature of 'therapy' that could work would be different, and to likely harder to 'fix'. But, if people read my posts properly, they would understand that I am not condoning it, as you did, and as you rightly stated that is not what I intended or meant.

SinisterBuggyMonth · 10/05/2012 16:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CatholicDad · 10/05/2012 16:33

Bochead, you said

"1 What noone has ever explained to me about our legal system is why crimes against property seem to be more severely punished than crimes against the person? Why do you get a lower sentence for gang rape & trafficking than for robbing a bank? I keep reading about what seem to me to be very low sentences for rape and peadophilia & it's wrong."

I'm afraid you are misinformed and quite possibly unduly influenced by the degree to which the tabloids stir up disquiet about sentencing in such cases using a few isolated examples.

To put the matter in context, this may interest you: I.googled "armed robber jailed" and then "gang rape jailed". The first fifteen sentences for armed robbery for adults produced an average sentence of 5.8 years' imprisonment. The first fourteen sentences for gang rape produced an average sentence of 8.6 years' imprisonment.

I excluded one of the fifteen sentences imposed for gang rape as the sentence was an indefinite sentence and so could not be used to calculate a mean average.

I also did not include the term of nineteen years imposed this week in Liverpool.

Thus I hope you now realise that these offences are not seen as less serious than bank robbery, and that, happily, the opposite is the case.

2/ Some of the girls involved were in the care of the local authority. How on earth were these monsters allowed to gain access to these vunerable youngsters? Teenagers in care are another topic I keep reading about in terms of their seeming vulnerability to predators - is there anything society can do to ensure they are better protected?

I hope so. But teenagers in care will of course often be there because they are vulnerable and may also have lead a chaotic lifestyle in the past. Such girls will often have self-esteem issues which draw them to those who would seek to subjugate and control them. Add to this the fact that care homes are not prisons and the difficulties become all too evident.

TheBigJessie · 10/05/2012 16:48

Paedophile/paedophilia aren't legal classifications. They're psychological ones. There is probably a technical word for men who are sexually attracted to young teenagers during puberty, but paedophile isn't it.

Besides, I suspect that for these men, the main motivation for targeting those girls wasn't just their figures, but their immature, easily manipulatible young minds. Angry Sad

CoffeeAhorlicksAnonymous · 10/05/2012 17:06

In no way is bank theft anywhere near the same as rape. Rape is one the most horrendus crimes that can be committed against a human, thats why it's used in war. 8.6 years for rape is appalling pathetic.

CatholicDad · 10/05/2012 17:14

You may be right. I was merely pointing out how much more seriously the British courts treat rape than robbery, in the main.

mercibucket · 10/05/2012 17:32

It is in fact well known and taught on politics courses/feminist courses that crimes against property have historically been treated with greater seriousness (ie longer sentences) than those against the person. Of course the water is further muddied by the fact that women used to be the property of their husband so a crime against them was a crime against property. There was a rather horrendous example of this in the 80's when a vicar's daughter was raped in front of her family and property also stolen.the theft was punished far more strongly. I believ the judge argued that she 'had got over it' or similar

mercibucket · 10/05/2012 17:36

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Saward

A brave teenager and woman

Forgot to mention, crimes against the state attract the highest punishment of all (last year's riots)

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