not admit to my lovely df that i think homeopathy is a load of, well, nonsense?

[ForkInTheForeheid]

My df is a big believer in homeopathy, the homeopathic Dr was the first port of call when we were kids, I'm sure we as kids and my dad have had lots of benefit from the placebo effect over the years. :-) however, as an adult with a critical mind and some scientific knowledge I came to the conclusion that I didn't believe any of homeopathy's claims. So for several years every time DS or I get any illness my dad tells me which homeopathic remedy I need, emphatic that aconite will destroy the common cold if you "catch it early enough" and that rus. tox. (?) will cure chicken pox and stop the spots from turning into scabs, they will just disappear back into the body apparently...

So aibu to politely nod and agree despite thinking it's a load of rubbish (no placebo effect if you don't believe it will work either) or should I admit my scepticism to him? I'm usually pretty honest with people and so it makes me feel icky and uncomfortable but I don't want to hurt his feelings.

No I havnt got in a muddle.

Some homeopaths do not see themselves as being entirely separate from herbalism.

And some homeopaths DO 'prescribe' herbs ( not diluted and shaken ).

The whole point being that the entire practice does not have a regulatory controlling body.

Which is why some homeopaths have got away with giving preparations to people they claim will prevent malaria .

Well if you weren't in a muddle, your original post was so badly worded that it actually meant something totally different to what you intended it to mean.

You said "Homeopathy if taken during an IVF cycle can render the cycle unsuccessful (research proven ) I just wanted to point that out while we were on the subject."

You now seem to be saying you meant "Herbal remedies (some of which may even be prescribed by someone who claims to be giving homeopathic remedies), if taken during an IVF cycle can render...."

That's a totally different statement. And i can believe that herbal remedies may have an effect on IVF as some can be very powerful (hence why so much 'real' medicine comes from plant sources originally!). Still no research though...

the NHS does not need to be wasting money on herbalists,druids,snake oil salemen or any other purveyors of woo woo aka religions.

If herbalsits want to mix chemicals then become a pharmacist not woo woo tea makers.

The research was done by the Committee for the Safety of Medicines which is an independent advisory body.
Its formation was called for following the Thalidamide catastrophe.
I'm sorry I would link, but I'm on a phone and dont know how to do it.
My post may have been muddled .. I was solo parenting and mumsnetting in between caring for my poorly boy who was delirious with a temp.
The research is there though , and because homeopaths are not regulated they are not advised in IVF . Because their liquids are not measurable or quantifiable ( in addition to the fact that some of these homeopaths DO dispense herbs to vulnerable would be parents. )
The theory is that the herbs may in some way prevent implantation , or interfere with the hormone therapies that are taken throughout the cycle.
I don't know if that is any clearer.
Probably not as I'm pretty sleep deprived past few days.

Sorry nannyplum didn't mean to sound patronising at all. Your explanation makes perfect sense. I think the point most people are making is homeopathy would have no effect what so ever. If a homeopath could be peddling herbs than that's completely different! Hope your little boy feels better soon.

Thanks lovely, that's really kind of you. x
I think a trip to the docs is needed tomo. Night night x

Sadly homeopathy is not the only woo in medicine, it seems quite prone to quackery historically, and still today.....for eg I remember when I first came on MN being amazed at the anti MMR/other vaccination feeleings here, and that was only about 9 months ago.

I do think the medical profession has to think about why it is popular though, I think there is quite a lot to learn in the way patients are treated in the Alt Med system.

"I do think the medical profession has to think about why it is popular though, I think there is quite a lot to learn in the way patients are treated in the Alt Med system."

Part of that is probably related to the amount of time allocated for an appointment, but changing that would need more funding to pay for more staff.

Part of that is probably related to the amount of time allocated for an appointment, but changing that would need more funding to pay for more staff.

Possibly, but I think there is an attitudinal issue and an overheads issue. Attitudinal in that Alt Med prectitioners go out of business if they are crap with people, and overheads in that the doctor's salary is not the biggest component of the cost per patient, and patients are prepared to pay these people.

overheads in that the doctor's salary is not the biggest component of the cost per patient, and patients are prepared to pay these people.

Sorry, can you explain that?

overheads - you could expand no. of doctors without attracting the huge overheads of the NHS per patient.

prepared to pay - there is clearly extra money in the patient base that is prepared to pay for being treated better.

"overheads - you could expand no. of doctors without attracting the huge overheads of the NHS per patient."

Sorry, I still dont understand what that means.

Obviously there are people who are prepared to pay, that is how private medical care works, which is probably a more realistic thing to compare to private providers of non-evidence based therapies, rather than state funded medical care.

One of the reasons things like homeopathy have a good placebo effect is IMO partly because of the woo factor - not knowing how it's supposed to work is probably a benefit as it makes people see it as mysterious and magical. On top of that when you pay for homeopathy you get a lovely unhurried consultation with someone who listens to your woes and promises you a new way out. All off this makes you feel better. It's no wonder people swear by it - people want there to be a magic solution when actual scientific medicines aren't enough (because of course they aren't always).

If I were you OP, whenever you have a suitable and non-serious ailment, ask your df to help you do some tests eg taking both medicines without knowing which is which, and see which works best. Not in an aggressive or sneery way, just to show him you're not being stubborn but actually have your reasons. Also tell him until homeopathy proves its worth you'll stick to real medicine for DS.

The other reason that homeopathy has a good placebo effect is that generally it's only used to treat vague, mild, self limiting conditions. Not really surprising that it gets better- it would have done anyway!

Also there is some confusion about arnica on this thread. Actual arnica e.g. in a cream is a herbal remedy - it can be helpful on bruises etc. It's in the same category as things like witch hazel or peppermint tea. It's not a big pharmaceutical manufactured drug, it's a traditional remedy, but can be effective and this has been scientifically tested.
eg here

Homeopathic arnica is a normal homeopathic remedy with no actual arnica in it.
see here

Totally seeker. And these are often the kids of things (eg stress-related headaches) that will be helped by the attention and TLC aspect too.

What I don't quite understand with homeopathic arnica is that homeopathy is based on the idea that what causes a symptom will cure it (obvious bullshit before you even start on the magic water) so they give you the water memory of something which causes a headache to cure a headache. But arnica helps with bruising, so wouldn't giving homeopathic arnica (if there was any truth in the bullshit) cause bruising?

I'm probably thinking too hard about made up nonsense here though.

Sorry, I still dont understand what that means.

NHS estimate is c £25 per appointment, I can't see how the doctor costs more than about 1/4 of that, so the rest is overhead. I am pretty certain its possible to increase no. of doctors at a a much lower overhead than that - I mean, the quacks mange it quite succesfully.

Quacks don't have to pay for proper drugs though, do they? Sugar and water are quite cheap compared to antibiotics and painkillers.

Quacks don't have to pay for proper drugs though, do they? Sugar and water are quite cheap compared to antibiotics and painkillers

I have often wondered about producing a sugar coated pill-for-all-ills, I reckon you could give it to 50% of the people who go to the doctor at no difference in treatment effectiveness.

I thought of calling it Damnitol :o

And then I discovered Smarties.....

£25 per appointment - For what length of appointment though, with what level of staff? Some overheads would increase eg most of the time consulting rooms are in constant use, so if you had longer appointments you would need more rooms, more equipment.

The difference between homeopathy and orthodox medicine is not just in the remedies they prescribe, but their view of the disease process itself. In orthodox medicine they believe that we should fight the disease by giving drugs to mask the symptoms, i.e. if you have a cough with lots of phlem, take Benylin (which is a cough suppressant and affects the signals in the brain to stop the cough reflex), this does not treat the disease, it treats the symptoms, so you feel better. In homeopathy, they believe that the symptom is the cure in progress, the phlem is the body's way of healing the disease, the phlem is infected and is ridding the body of the infection, you cough it up and so clear the disease over time. It's up to the individual which course of action you want to take when you have an illness, but this is why a homeopath will tell you that by taking Benylin you are actually prolonging the cough because you're suppressing the phlem and coughing action. A homeopath will give you a remedy to assist your body to get rid of the phlem faster, this is called a healing crisis, i.e. you produce more phlem at first as your body naturally heals. And it's this part that people tend to dislike, as humans we don't like feeling ill and will do anything to get rid of that feeling, when actually being ill for a few days isn't that bad, we get over it and 'magically' get better.

NJWS, how does water and sugar assist your body to rid itself of phlegm faster?

"In orthodox medicine they believe that we should fight the disease by giving drugs to mask the symptoms," This isn't true. Orthodox medicine does not as a rule, think that masking symptoms fights disease, it thinks that masking symptoms helps people feel better while their bodies (and/or other medicines) are fighting disease and that it's very reasonable not to want to feel pain etc. Orthodox medicine is aware that some symptoms are a result of the body fighting disease and it is aware that there are lots of illnesses that medicine can't fight, just make the patient more comfortable while the body does the work. There is some (personally I think not enough) research to find out which symptoms are best treated and which are best left in terms of getting better quickly.

The idea that homeopathy has a great approach because they look at the whole person ignores the fact they have an appalling approach because they don't look dispassionately at the cures they are hawking. Homeopathy provings are stuck at the bottom of a two hundred year old ditch of scientific enquiry because when improved process were brought in they showed that homeopathy didn't work - so homeopaths rejected better methods in order to stick with false beliefs. That is a poor approach.

Sorry not read all the posts,

YANBU

I have the same thing with a suprising number of friends. Some of they spend a lot of money on it. I don't say anything unless asked , and then I just say its not for me.