not admit to my lovely df that i think homeopathy is a load of, well, nonsense?

[ForkInTheForeheid]

My df is a big believer in homeopathy, the homeopathic Dr was the first port of call when we were kids, I'm sure we as kids and my dad have had lots of benefit from the placebo effect over the years. :-) however, as an adult with a critical mind and some scientific knowledge I came to the conclusion that I didn't believe any of homeopathy's claims. So for several years every time DS or I get any illness my dad tells me which homeopathic remedy I need, emphatic that aconite will destroy the common cold if you "catch it early enough" and that rus. tox. (?) will cure chicken pox and stop the spots from turning into scabs, they will just disappear back into the body apparently...

So aibu to politely nod and agree despite thinking it's a load of rubbish (no placebo effect if you don't believe it will work either) or should I admit my scepticism to him? I'm usually pretty honest with people and so it makes me feel icky and uncomfortable but I don't want to hurt his feelings.

Nanny: how? Do you have a link to any studies? Do all sugar and water pills do that or just the ones given by homeopaths?

But the placebo effect is affected by the patient's perception of the medicine - branded painkillers are more effective than unbranded even with the same ingredients because of the perception that more expensive = better. So a weary GP handing a patient some sugar pills with a 'These are sugar pills, take them and they might make you feel better' isn't going to be as effective as a homeopathic quack who sits down and gives it the full mumbo-jumbo. But then people believe that the mumbo-jumbo works and that's a worry.

Homeopathy if taken during an IVF cycle can render the cycle unsuccessful (research proven )

there's research and there's research....

I'm sure if you contact the HFEA they will be able to tell you ... Or if you would like to contact DR George Ndukwe at the CARE facility ( where the first IVF baby was created ) I'm sure they can tell you themselves .
I'm not in the habit of posting links to placate sarcastic people - if your interested do the research yourself.
My post was made to highlight the risk so that prospective parents who desperately want children don't have their chances ruined by using something which Chinese Herbalists claim will help them .... When in actual fact it will destroy their chances of success .

And your qualifications in obstetrics are what exactly ???
This research is clinical research provided by the top obstetricians and gynaecologists in this country.

I might have known that a few mumsnetters with their heads up their own arses might claim to know better !!!

Chinese herbalism is not the same as homeopathy though.

Well, I just googled IVF and homeopathy and got a load of links from homeopaths claiming that they can create personalised homeopathic treatments which will increase the chance of IVF success. Perhaps the homeopaths could fight it out?

And I just googled George Ndukwe and homeopathy and nothing came up. Why is he keeping this groundbreaking research to himself?

If you state something is 'proven' on MN you have to expect someone will ask you to tell them where. That's the kind of crowd you get on here.

I think homeopathy is total bollocks. It's dangerous bollocks when people try to use it instead of medicine to treat serious illness like cancer. However, I also sincerely doubt what you've just said, since you don't want to link to your sources and are referring to chinese herbalism and homeopathy interchangeably.

Since homeopathy is a few sugar pills, I really don't see it's likely that it would harm your IVF chances. How do you even blind a trial to test that - what would your placebo be .

Dont worry NovackNGood you wont be paying taxes for the medical herbalist courses! the degree is funded exactly the same way as any other degree.
What I meant by 'on the NHS' was that we are in the process of being recognised as medical professionals, but not like a GP - sort of akin to a physiotherapist or osteopath - so a gp will be able to refer you to a herbalist like they do for some other treatments.
And I am certainly more of a 'science ' and clinical based evidence practitioner than one of the tree hugging crystal waving variety (though of course, understanding placebo, if thats what you think will help you I could oblige!!) so I do think that there are certainly many many incidents where you certainly wouldnt be wise to come to me rather than A&E. I have a child with a serious condition and would never think that what I could do would be a replacement for her allopathic treatment, it is certainly a complement to it, and hopefully prevents the need for it a little (as verified by her extensive team who see her very regularly)

Chinese herbalists are certainly not homeopaths. a fair number of herbs are highly toxic during pregnancy, which is why a herbalist should proceed with extreme caution during pregnancy. Also there has been quite alot of cases of chinese herbs being contaminated/wrong plant substituted. Chinese medicine also uses stuff which is not plant based, although that is not as common in the UK.

"Homeopathy if taken during an IVF cycle can render the cycle unsuccessful (research proven ) I just wanted to point that out while we were on the subject.
Most IVF centres highlight this now, but the more people are aware the better"

Googled extensively but can't find anything- which is a bit odd if "most" IVF centres highlight it. Please could you show me where I'm going wrong? ....

The Commitee for the Safety of Medicines in the UK advises against using any herbal medicine in the UK when under going IVF treatment.
This is due to the fact such medicines when tested ,can vary in strength , within the same batch.
Upon testing herbal medicines , some have also been found to contain small amounts of lead and other metal substances.

Nothing to do with homeopathy but I was under the impression that the first IVF baby was Louise Brown who was born in Oldham.

Homeopathy isn't a herbal medicine, it's water that's been shaken a bit and contains no active ingredients. Sometimes it's put on a sugar pill.

And herbal medicine is not homeopathy - afaik.

NannyPlum- Homeopathy and herbal medicine aren't the same thing. You've been told that quite a few times now.

"The Commitee for the Safety of Medicines in the UK advises against using any herbal medicine in the UK when under going IVF treatment.
This is due to the fact such medicines when tested ,can vary in strength , within the same batch.
Upon testing herbal medicines , some have also been found to contain small amounts of lead and other metal substances."

And this is relevant to the homeopathy debate exactly how?

seeker I think its because NannyPlum made some claim about homeopathy causing IVF failure, which suggested that there was actually something IN homeopathic medicine, and then she referred to chinese medicine which is of couse not homeopathic.

homeopathic = sugar pills (and where has the 'memory water' gone at this point, when its made into a pill - or is it just the memory of the memory which is left???

Herbal = active ingredients. I have stuff in my cupboard which could kill you

ahhh, whoops. see that was NannyPlums reference there.

sorry, its late-ish

Look, woo-bollocks medicine 'works' on people who either haven't got anything wrong with them apart from a dose of whinyarsery, or have things wrong with them that will get better no matter what. So woo-bollocks is great for sniffles, collywobbles and a vague feeling of not being paid enough attention to. But it's still a load of old bollocks. As is religion. If you believe in any of this stuff then you are definitely a lot stupider than me.

I think nannyplum simly got the two in a muddle.

If you believe in any of this stuff then you are definitely a lot stupider than me.

Has anyone posted the link to the Mitchell and Webb sketch yet?

I love that

I want a 'Like' button for sgb's post. I can't say it any better than that.

Hi all....here we are again...

I just wanted to say on the topic of the difference between religion and homeopathy (that was being discussed earlier):

Direct evidence for the existence of god: none

Direct evidence against the existence of god: none

Direct evidence for homeopathy helping anything in any way beyond the placebo effect: none

Direct evidence against homeopathy helping anything in any way beyond the placebo effect: More than you can possibly imagine....if ANYTHING has been tested more often and still been found to have no affect beyond the placebo then I will be massively surprised to hear about it.

I hope this explains why it is (and should be) more intellectually and socially acceptable to believe in god than to think that homeopathy works beyond placebo.