Aibu? to be pissed off at this: "The cost and social implications of using an infant milk should be considered when deciding how to feed your baby."

[Selyna]

WTF do Hipp mean by social implications?

Both methods of feeding a baby are acceptable so fuck off with the whole acting like ff is poison! my dd is perfectly fine but i hate this constant making me feel like a failure because i failed to bf although i tried so so hard!

And that thus reminds me of another thing for my list: ff is not a choice, if your workplace has nowhere you could pump, and no fridge.

I want choices! When do I want them? Last week, already!

But employers have a legal responsibility to allow you to continue breast feeding on return to work. If they cannot supply that then they should transfer you to a job where you can. If they cannot do that they should suspend you on full pay.

Okay so I got this off the internet....can anyone tell me if it is in fact correct?

entropy, it's not as cut and dried as that.

There is no absolutely legal obligation to do this - under health and safety law, they are supposed to find somewhere clean and private to express and store, and not to put you to tasks (like an overnight stay, or training course over a weekend) which would stop you bf, but I have never heard of anyone actually challenging this if the employer has refused to co-operate.

That's off top of head, have not checked.

Some workplaces have bf-friendly policies, which is a good step forward.

Yes I certainly know of friends who have had to stop early because of work pressures. Not everyone can afford to take the 6 months off.

Im self employed and I work from home, and its a right bag o' shite when you have a baby. I had visions of doing a spot of work rocking the baby next to be all happy. Of course far from the truth!

I am thinking of getting a job.

But still I have to say that everyone gets a financial shafting when they cant work for 6 months, Its not exclusive to the breast feeder.

Even if someone else could give my baby a bottle, unless you are lucky to have family to help you still got to pay nursery fees.

This whole thread is just getting a bit embarrassing now.

I'd have thought after whatmeworry's complete batting out of the ball park that people might think it wise to nix the, 'oh dear God, how stupid are you?' comments, only to then be publicly humiliated when they get it wrong.

It really makes it look even more like you just don't understand the arguments being put to you.

Aw. Its gone serious again.

Prehaps we could encourage the babies to drink Rola Cola if we need to go back to work early?

entropygirl one issue is agency/temping work. Not sure how many women that affects- but one place I worked pre-children, your work was booked week by week. As such, no-one would be in a position to ask for adjustments, even if they were theoretically entitled to them. The employer could simply not ask for you next week, and say they needed less extra employees.

9 out of 10 babies prefer Coca Cola!*

*This is not a real statistic, and you should not give your baby coca cola as a weaning food. Jamie Oliver doesn't like it.

stillor, you cannot take two sentences from two different posts and contrast them in that way as if I was somehow contradicting myself.

Comment A (about low financial cost) was clearly in the context of a discussion about the cost of food. THE COST OF FOOD.

Comment B (about employment) was clearly in response to your comment about the impact of the need to earn a living versus exclusive breastfeeding for 6 mths.

So you can take your 'hmmmmmmmmms' and your posturing and stick 'em in a lemon curd sandwich....while some of us wait for whatme to come an apologise for getting her maths wrong (and a whole load of other stuff too....)

tikok

I note you have not provided any facts or reputable sources in answer to my previous post yet bar hearsay and bunkum.

I wouldnt dream of it Jessie until they turn one. I make sure I use a bottle so the teeth go nice n furry.

?????

Why the tone, novack?

I told you - the source was in my previous post. It was Infant Feeding:the physiological basis (edited: Acre). It's actually on the web, I discovered, and if you Google you will find it, as pdfs.

I am not sure why you think that is hokum or bunkum - have you read it?

I said I could not answer your first question about any increased appetite being the result of new activity post-pregnancy.

The second question, where you said you did not understand how the body laid down fat in pregnancy, adding that you thought it was unlikely because how did the body 'know' it was pregnant (unless I understood you wrong), I said there are lots of changes in the body during pregnancy, which are the result of the body 'knowing' it's pregnant - I am not familiar with the precise 'mechanisms' whereby the body lays down fat stores during pregnancy, but there's no doubt this happens. It's not at all controversial - it's accepted fact. Surely you don't need a reference for that? It's in any midwifery text book, any pregnancy book for mothers, and most women actually see and feel the fat for themselves.

Sorry - editor is Akre with a K.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2702124

I think you can get to the pdfs of it from that link.

It's actually a small(ish) textbook, with many refs.

Blimey - get busy for a day and see how much shit Lemon Curd gets slung! Its time for Revenge of the Curds :o

I'd have thought after whatmeworry's complete batting out of the ball park that people might think it wise to nix the, 'oh dear God, how stupid are you?' comments, only to then be publicly humiliated when they get it wrong.

Bah - as someone said upthread, "research" here is judged by whoever shouted loudest last.

while some of us wait for whatme to come an apologise for getting her maths wrong (and a whole load of other stuff too....)

Well keep on waiting, there was nothing wrong with my maths, I think your using "calories" for my "kilo calories" was a goodie though. If I may quote myself:

And by the way, I bothered to do the Lemon Curd maths - it's about 17 pence per kcalorie

Which you then translated as:

17p per calorie of lemon curd???? Surely even common sense tells you that's wrong!

Its that k thing in kcalorie....it means kilo, or "A Thousand Of".

But to be magnanimous fair to you and entropygirl, there are 2 types of calories - "energy calories" and "food calories", and to make it more confusing 1000 "energy calories" equals 1 "food calorie".

I just assumed (silly me) that as were talking about food all the time, we would use Food calories not Energy calories, as Entropygirl did. One hopes she was being mischievious rather than not knowing the difference ;)

Anyway, on with The Great Lemon Curf BF Diet Plan

As I said, its about 17p per kcalorie (1000 Food calories) of Tesco Value Lemon Curd (nothing but the best for our PFB in this Free BF world), which means its about (assuming c 500 calories a day, 7 days a week) that makes it about 60p to feed the PFB for a week, as opposed to a tin of Formula and the usual c £1 per day of Normal Human Diet.

So the small print to "BF is Free" is that it is 60p a day so long as ypu eat lemon Curd for every one of those calories for every day you BF. But as I mentioned, thsi is possible but not likely, for 2 reasons:

1, No one in their right mind is going to eat 500 calories - about 1/4 to 1/5th of their diet - every day for however many days they BF - thats about 3 pots of the stuff a week! For months!

1. BF types are unlikely to do that anyway, as the demographic tests very strongly for MC mummies, so Waitrose Carrots (far more than £1/calorie) are more likely that Tesco CValue lemon curd or rola cola etc etc

And to quote from another friendly face on this thread:

Which seems to say that she [Thats me...] thinks a breastfeeding woman's body only uses the additional 500 calories to make the milk. So if a woman is eating a balanced diet of 1500 calories with vegetables, meat etc but then chooses to eat those extra 500 calories (which she doesn't actually need) in lemon curd, peanut butterr etc then her milk is solely made from the extra 'crap'? And she's accusing other people of 'woo'!

Ah - well actually I thought the opposite, I was baing (ahem) ironic. I thought that the woo bit was thinking the body does triage, but you see that woo is the only way the Free BF Lemon Curd Diet works out, ie you have to assume every one of those marginal 500 calories above 1500 is Lemon Curd. For every day you braestfeed.

At c 3 pots a week for 6 months I calculate thats (about) 26 x 3 = 78 pots.

(Well in fact its more, as the body does not convert input efficiently into output, even with the magical maternity metabolism booster, so its probably - lets assume c 66% efficiency, very generous - more like 120 pots.

Mind you, people have written successful Diet books on stranger concepts....

I did notice the kcalorie but was scared of getting drawn in, also my maths is crap

And I prefer marmite

"One poster whatme, has persistently refused to accept the evidence that breastfeeding is of low (no?) financial cost to the mother"

No, I am convinced that it can be done if you eat nothing but Lemon Curd. I have seen the light.

I don't believe it actually will be done, however, not with every Mummy Manual emphasising loading up on natural, healthy etc calories (and those really cost....)

No, I am convinced that it can be done if you eat nothing but Lemon Curd

^^
Correction - It can be done with Value Lemon Curd, at 22p per 411g or c 5p per 100g. The numbers start to mount up if you buy Tescos Ordinary Lemon Curd at tice the price, and God forbid you buy Finest Lemon Curd, which is 53 p for 320g, or 10x the price - ie about £6 per week!

Darn, I wish one could edit posts - that's £1.69 per 320g for Finest Curd, or 53p per 100g.

I wonder what the difference is between 5p/100g Value Curd and 53p/100g Finest Curd?

tiktok

Again you have not answered my question about your claim the body knows to lay down fat that you determine is a fact.

Increased weight is common during pregnancy due to biological changes taking place within the body tissue.

Extra fat is just excess fat that was not needed down to people 'eating for two' less active yet not reducing portion sizes etc. etc.

How many times does tiktok have to spell it out for you NovackNGood? She's given you sources.

You say that 'increased weight gain is common during pregnancy due to biological changes taking place within the body tissue' but can't see that those 'biological changes' are the mechanism for storing fat that will be available during breastfeeding?

The human body is an amazing thing. It's amazing how we become pregnant, it's amazing how our body can carry and grow a baby. Why is it inconceivable that there could be mechanisms in it to support breastfeeding without needing to increase calorie intake?!

And Whatmeworry, you are the only one you seems to think that woman need to eat an extra 500 calories. Of course no one is going to set out to eat 500 calories of lemon curd to support breastfeeding. It's a wonder the human race ever survived - I mean what did those poor cave women do not having calorie counters to ensure they ate an exact extra 500 calories a day to support breastfeeding.

Head - brickwall.

"Increased weight is common during pregnancy due to biological changes taking place within the body tissue."

And then straight after that...

"Extra fat is just excess fat that was not needed down to people 'eating for two' less active yet not reducing portion sizes etc. etc."

These two sentences contradict themselves...

So is increased weight due to biological changes taking place within the body tissue or eating too much and being less active?

In any case, I certainly didn't eat for 2; I ate more bacause I was starving hungry a lot of the time during pregnancy - maybe my body telling me something?

I then shed the fairly significant amount of weight I'd gained as I breastfed. And am way slimmer now that I was pre-DC, after 16 months of breastfeeding (stopped 5 months ago).

I am sure I am being super dense here and have missed the point...

Seriously, this thread is like the living dead now...!

It's a wonder the human race ever survived - I mean what did those poor cave women do not having calorie counters to ensure they ate an exact extra 500 calories a day to support breastfeeding.

Actually I do sometimes think it is a miracle the human race has survived given that BF is the most natural/normal and instinctive thing for any female mammal to do and yet so many of us have found it so incredibly difficult to get right without oodles of intensive instruction and support.