Aibu? to be pissed off at this: "The cost and social implications of using an infant milk should be considered when deciding how to feed your baby."

[Selyna]

WTF do Hipp mean by social implications?

Both methods of feeding a baby are acceptable so fuck off with the whole acting like ff is poison! my dd is perfectly fine but i hate this constant making me feel like a failure because i failed to bf although i tried so so hard!

tiktok.

I am interestd in your above post and I am wondering if you have the answers to a couple of questions in the source you used for your post.

Is the extra hunger you suggest is possible during early days of bf down to bf or down to the increased energy used due to increased mobility post childbrith with increased mobility with bump.

What evidence is there in your source that the body actualy 'lays down fat because it knows it is pregnant." If your insulin levels are not balanced then sure your body may be more prone to increase its fat but purely because your body 'knows' it's in a state seems a tenuous link to me so I would like to see that study.

novak I'll check tomorrow for more info, but I gave the source in my post - maybe you can find the book extracted on google books.

You dont always get hungrier during bfing it just uses up calories from your pregnancy.

On the calorie front I just wanted to add that the definition of calorie is all about burning food in a calorimeter. This is no way mimics the processes in the body. It takes no account of the difference in energy required to digest different foods, or that fact different foods may be absorbed at different efficiencies, or the fact that protein is not 'burnt' at all but recycled....

So in other words while energy must be conserved, calories =/= energy.

I repeat in capitals for the benefit of whatme CALORIES =/= ENERGY

so everything you have said so far, based on the nature of energy IS NOT TRUE of calories.

Finally it is fairly obvious in the case of newborns that foods of equal calorific value are not of equal energetic value...that would be why you can't feed a newborn pasta etc. The whole point of BM is that it is matched exactly to be what the baby can get the most energy per calorie from. That the mother also gets a good energy to calorie deal is also helpful.

Tesco value lemon curd = 0.017 pence per kcal

Aptimil 0-12m = 0.246 pence per kcal

So calories from lemon curd are around 15 times cheaper...and that's before you factor in that BM is going to be more energy efficient for the baby than FM...and that a lot of milk is protein which isn't actually worth much....

I would also like to point out that while putting lemon curd into mum is good,
putting lemon curd into baby is bad

nvack you asked:

1. "Is the extra hunger you suggest is possible during early days of bf down to bf or down to the increased energy used due to increased mobility post childbrith with increased mobility with bump.'

I don't know - I can't find anything that discusses this, though it's certainly plausible that mothers start moving about more after pregnancy and birth, and find their appetites increase to match, and that it's nothing to do with making milk.

1. "What evidence is there in your source that the body actualy 'lays down fat because it knows it is pregnant." If your insulin levels are not balanced then sure your body may be more prone to increase its fat but purely because your body 'knows' it's in a state seems a tenuous link to me so I would like to see that study."

The body does all sorts of things 'cos it 'knows' it's pregnant - periods stop, milk making-and-storing tissue replaces fat in the breasts, skin becomes pigmented, fluid is retained, the immune system changes, etc etc etc etc.

One of the things it does is to lay down fat, which is actually stored energy - I can't give you the biochemical chapter-and-verse on how this mechanism is set in place, but it does not seem to me 'tenuous'. The vast majority of women see and feel this extra fat - did this not happen to you?

Lovin' your calculations, entropy :)

Huh, I just came on here to report the calorific value of rice! I feel a bit late to the party. But anyway

Long Grain Rice by Bilashi Basics (dunno origin of this bag) says on the packaging that 100g provides 351 calories. Aldi sell rice for 40p a 500g bag.

I repeat in capitals for the benefit of whatme CALORIES =/= ENERGY

Eh? The Calorie is a measure of Energy! Wikipedia:

"The calorie is a pre-SI metric unit of energy. It was first defined by Nicolas Clément in 1824 as a unit of heat, entering French and English dictionaries between 1841 and 1867.[1] In most fields its use is archaic, having been replaced by the SI unit of energy, the joule. However, in many countries it remains in common use as a unit of food energy."

I think I see the problem - You don't know the first thing about maths or physics, and thus can't understand the data and have rely on (biassed) 3rd parties.

Which is how the whole thing becomes a mass of woo and magic.

On the other end of the pricing scale, the corner-shop with narrow margins sells Basmatic rice for £1.39 per 500g. Pasta, which has similar values on the packaging, is for sale at 75p per 500g. You even have a choice of shapes: bows, shells, short, slanted wide tubes, and spirals.

CALORIES =/= ENERGY (available to the human being).

Yeah I am shit at maths and physics...that how I GOT my oxbridge PhD in biophysics...it's all woo down there...yup indeedy.

Now is the moment to say " oh I see you are totally right, I was making the simplistic and foolish assumption that all of the energy in food is usable in the human body which I was also foolishly assuming is 100% efficient"

Tesco value lemon curd = 0.017 pence per kcal

Peanut butter has even higher calories/penny fwiw, and cheap coca cola is better still. But, try and build a diet for 6 months on Lemon Curd, Basmati Rice and Coke.

Live on that for even a few weeks and you will be in Super Size Me land.

(This btw explains a lot of the obesity epidemic, the cheapest calories are in crap food and carbohydrates, so that what poor people eat. But you need a balanced diet, and vegetable and meat calories are not nearly as cheap)

Yes but the point remains that calories into mum is vastly cheaper than calories into baby, and given we are taking extra above and beyond your lovely middle class balanced diet it doesn't matter at all if they are from lemon curd.

Do you get yet that no all calories are equal to the body? Particularly to a newborns body that can't digest some sources at all?

Yeah I am shit at maths and physics...that how I GOT my oxbridge PhD in biophysics.

Well then, you of all people should know that calories are a measure of energy.

And you of all people should know that it takes more calories in to get calories out, as some will be lost in the conversion process as heat etc.

And therefore you cannot get 500 calories out into a baby every day without taking in or having stored more than 500 calories in.

And that those calories have to be paid for (Hm - actually, maybe the "must be paid for" bit isn't so apparent at Oxbridge).

It depends what you eat there is no way on this earth we are spending 7 quid extra on food we do the whole food shop for 50 quid often less. That is for 3 and a bf baby.

Formula is bloody expensive. When ds was little it was costing us £25-£30 a week, we did buy a case of cartons per week ready made as its a bloody nightmare making bottles out of the house to safe specifications.

A carton of milk powder lasted us 5 days by the way.

Tangential. We are talking about cheap ways to add an extra 500 calories a day. She'll be eating what she normally eats + a bit extra. (Incidentally coca cola= pointless unless you're drinking for the taste. Doesn't stop hunger pangs very much, if at all.)

Plus also cost of bottles, sterilising equipment new teats as they grow. Nightmare.

(Incidentally, if it's going to degenerate into class-based sneering- I originate from benefits underclass, baby. I haven't got much away from that background, to the point, that I did worry about the cost of food to feed myself, during bf,n when I found out it would be twins.

I pay A Great Deal of Attention to the shopping bills.

Twins! No wonder you ended up with gleaming mammaries!

Well then, you of all people should know that calories are a measure of energy.

Yes but not a measure of the energy available biochemically.

And you of all people should know that it takes more calories in to get calories out, as some will be lost in the conversion process as heat etc.

I don't think I ever suggested that conservation of energy was bogus but whatever.

If you eat sugar to make sugar then you run at a very slight loss to overheads, but if you make it from stored pregnancy fat then you get it almost for free. The point tiktok has been making is that you get more calories out from calories in by making BM than any other activity. Exercise is for instance total crap. So if you overeat by 500 calories you will lay down maybe 300 calories worth of fat. What you can get back for that might be like 200 calories of exercise but might be 250 calories worth of sugar in milk etc. So from one point of view you can say that making BM instead of exercising gets you an extra 50 calories back.

And therefore you cannot get 500 calories out into a baby every day without taking in or having stored more than 500 calories in.

Again it would be nice to use up your fat stores for the purpose intended but if you are determined to eat extra then yes it will take some arbitrary amount more calories in to get 500 calories out to baby. This will be more than compensated for by the difference in the babies ability to extract energy from BM over FM. Or in other words we are more than likely comparing

550 calories into mum-> 500 into baby --> baby gets 400 calories to use

with

600 into baby ----> baby gets 400 calories to use.

NB. numbers made up but correct in trend.

And that those calories have to be paid for (Hm - actually, maybe the "must be paid for" bit isn't so apparent at Oxbridge)

Except for the ones you already ate which are there if you BF or not as fat and for the rest...well a factor of 15 in cost speaks for itself.

Admit it! It is WAY cheaper to BF from a calorie point of view....go on...it wont hurt and you will feel better for it.

ps. you def have to pay for calories in Oxbridge...in fact they are much cheaper almost everywhere else except london...

The thing about formula, is it's a set, non-negotiable cost. You cannot pick it up from the reduced section, or do shopping trips at closing time to buy it, unlike the display-until fruit/veg/salad/bakery items.