Aibu? to be pissed off at this: "The cost and social implications of using an infant milk should be considered when deciding how to feed your baby."

[Selyna]

WTF do Hipp mean by social implications?

Both methods of feeding a baby are acceptable so fuck off with the whole acting like ff is poison! my dd is perfectly fine but i hate this constant making me feel like a failure because i failed to bf although i tried so so hard!

But we need to have a middle ground where it's acceptable to pick either option!

The way some people post you would think ff was like arsenic. Someone compared it to not using seatbelts. I think while the risks exist I think they are a lot smaller than some would have us believe.

All it really does is pressurise women and make them feel awful. My baby had a virus and I was sobbing to the doctor that it was because I didn't bf. the doctor told me it wasn't the case but all the pressure to bf made me feel it was all my fault.

We should be able to (hcps too) say here are the facts and info... Make up your own mind and that's it.

Why anyone is so obsessed what individual
Others do is beyond me. We aren't killing our babies

When everyone pays their own health and social care costs they are entilted to do what they want. In the meanwhile the NHS can try to reduce the burden on the NHS by informing parents of the risks of formula feeding. If you don't like being lectured don't use the NHS.

That's not what you said, though, is it? "You didn't say, "Oi, bit sneery there!" It was a whole "this is a site for PARENTS" schtick. (Which was absolutely fucking lovely. Quite apart from the assumption that no-one with expertise in breastfeeding could possibly have children...)

You can and may dislike anything you like on here, be it an individual post, poster, posting style, or viewpoint. Similarly, other posters may welcome the self-same. For example, there are parents who use MN to access the support of qualified professionals in a variety of subjects. Including breastfeeding.

I have no issue with the NHS issuing guidelines or advice, nor have I said anything of the sort.

I have said that we shouldn't vilify ffers because you don't know why they are ff in the first place.

Careless throwaway phrases such as 'bf provides comfort and reassurance to babies' and shagmund saying earlier that ff was done to vulnerable children for the convenience of the people that care for them is rude and insulting and only serves to widen the divide between ff and bf

I can't actually believe that if everyone bf that the NHS would be massively 'unburdened' I for one would have used it more for PnD, anxiety, stress and possibly a shaken child.

I burdening the NHS would be things like drink/ drugs/ smoking etc.

It's overly simplistic to say that if everyone bf the NHS would be unburdened. No no bf kids are ever admitted? No mothers who bf are ever admitted? That argument doesnt even make sense!

Kayano

Eh, there is the rub. Many ff'ers feel attacked and that's pretty dreadful.

But I can assure you that BF'ers end up feeling awful, too! They feel pressured to FF; they encounter problems, and go to FF- years later, they find out they could have probably continued BF with support, that they never knew was there at the time. The sad fact is, it is very easy to make a sleep-deprived first-time mother feel shit and doubt herself.

Kayano I've only just read this thread and I agree with what you say.

I can't believe some of the stick you got for saying it though Lol

It's like competitive misery. I haven't seen any ff on this thread saying more people should ff. I have seen bf say that more people should bf as if physical capability was all there is too it.

I haven't seen ff implying that ff is reassuring and comforting thereby implying bf can not comfort there children.

What we need to do is look at the language used on ALL sides and adjust it and ALL just support each other! I'm sick of having facts rammed at NE when I go to buy my formula as if I must be bloody ignorant to the benefits of bf. how can anyone be unaware when every single leaflet is bf centred and hcps are reluctant to even sit and discuss formula and safe preparation with people?

stillor, I agree with you - whatme has enjoyed a major sneer-a-thon in most posts. Despite being ill-informed about how breastfeeding works, what otitis media is, and a number of other points.

Any sneering of my own is minor and directed personally at her :)

OTOH, it's a fact that most people don't understand research - nothing to do with them being stupid or ignorant, just because our education system doesn't teach it, and unless you end up with a job, or an interest, or some sort of FE/HE where you are required to learn it you can reach mature adulthood without really understanding what 'risk' is, for instance.

Worra I know.

I still love it dons AIBU loyalty badge

The sad fact is, it is very easy to make a sleep-deprived first-time mother feel shit and doubt herself.

Shall we stop doing it then?

Yes we should. I think we should draw this whole sorry excuse for a thread to a close too

Ah, but there's an entire internet and life outside AIBU. I can quote nastiness I have encountered for both sides! It's not intended to be competitive misery.

kayano, no one sensible thinks all women 'should' bf no matter what the cost to their mental health....no one sensible thinks formula is like 'arsenic'....no one sensible thinks the NHS would be wholly 'unburdened' if all babies were bf.

I can't fully explain why you interpret the facts in such a way that you feel personally criticised, except that feeding babies, however it's done, is an emotional topic because we love our babies and love nurturing them.

You take a comment like Shagmund's which she since qualified, and which she apologised for, and you're still worrying at it; you read a small label on a pack of formula and that's having 'facts rammed at you' and making you 'feel ignorant'; someone uses seat belts as a way of explaining risk and you think this means she said formula is like not using a seat belt (even though she explicitly said this is not what you mean); you say 'every single leaflet ' is bf centred - of course it isn't, though the bf ones are :) .

You clearly had a really difficult time with bf, and made what sounds like a rational and right-for-you decision to formula feed - this discussion is not about you and the more you take it personally, the worse it is, for you.

The thread hasn't totally been pointless. I've seen some things that make me feel that things seem to be moving in a good direction with various bodies moving to a more support based role. There have been some comments which got my back up but they have got qualified later on.

Well I have beer seen an NHS formula leaflet myself...

Can you not see why people would feel this way?

Shagmund and the like have only ever apologised for statements like that when they have been pulled up on them and shown how offensive they can be so I don't see why it's a bad thing in here to say 'think about what you are saying or implying'

By facts rammed at me I mean even when I am buying the formula I am confronted by a big old disclaimer telling me that what I'm doing is bad and have I really thought about it or the benefits of bf.

You say you feel down as a new mother and why make mothers feel bad but seem equally as blind as to how phrased used my upset a ff mother

You shouldn't need an he background to have research clearly explained to you.

You could say for example 'in every hundred babies fed formula, on average, 3 will get x, y, z. For every hundred babies fed breastmilk, on average, 1 will get x, y, z.

But health bodies don't do this. The benefit/ risk isn't qualified it is simply stated as 'breasfed babies are more likely to be x, y, z' and 'formula fed babies are at risk of a,b,c'.

Well, there should be formula leaflets- no wonder so many boil and cool the powder first to prepare it. I think I received two breastfeeding leaflets (one of which (the NHS one, natch) had nowt on positioning, or anything on the mechanisms of breastfeeding. Nor anything to indicate that there might be more to find out.). So, I thus feel that there should be more leaflets, and the present situation sets women up to want to bf, and then end up not managing it and then feeling bad about it.

On the other hand, it has been clearly expressed that any more leaflets will make ff'ers feel shit.

Guess what illogical conclusions my emotions reached when the babies were younger, eh?

But I never got offended by the disclaimers on formula. And NO, I am not saying this makes me superior to you.

I personally don't at all find being given material (useful) about bf bad in anyway. I did get one in a pack that said "mummy if I could speak I'd say please breastfeed me". With not a lot else useful info. What a lot of the info didn't say is how hard it can be for some people. I went on the breastfeeding training session which wasn't very good. Yes info is going to tug your heart strings if you been unsuccessful but that can't be helped. There needs to be more info out there on formula feeding also I agree.

Do you know, I was being pressured to ff by another mother when I was on the second day of labour, for f-wording sake?

She was in the ward to discuss induction. And she STARTED the discussion about feeding choices. She didn't like my neutral answer about how I was hoping to breastfeed. In retrospect, I suppose she thought I was judging her through my contractions. I wasn't. Couldn't give a piece of litter what she decided to use, then, or now.

None of the midwives tried to ask me about feeding choices in between contractions, though, so that's better going than many other MNers.

So having a discussion is pressuring? She started taking about choices?

Did she say 'you really should be ff?' because I find it quite hard to believe.

Pickles that leaflet needs to be pulped. What a waste of tree in the first place.

Yes Jessie agreed! Listen it does happen kayano. Especially when the baby isn't putting weight on etc. there are dickheads on both sides.

So we should all just look after ourselves, our own babies and we should now just leave it IMO.

Yes, indeed, she did, my lovely. Went on about for ten minutes. Which, when you are lying on a bed, having contractions, is very long. And "yoiu should ff, because it's easier." Her part of it was NOT a neutral discussion, in any way. It was a sales pitch accompanied by direct criticism of me. And I was in LABOUR.

FF'ers aren't all as pure as the driven snow. They're fellow people. Does my use of formula make me a nicer person in your eyes? Am I terefore incapable of ever being unpleasant?

To be fair Jessie has been very impartial. It's just an emotive topic, and she hadn't been at all unsupportive of anyone using formula. There have been some inflammatory comments on ere I agree. We all seem to be on the same page here on a lot of respects