Aibu? to be pissed off at this: "The cost and social implications of using an infant milk should be considered when deciding how to feed your baby."

[Selyna]

WTF do Hipp mean by social implications?

Both methods of feeding a baby are acceptable so fuck off with the whole acting like ff is poison! my dd is perfectly fine but i hate this constant making me feel like a failure because i failed to bf although i tried so so hard!

Why should we care what anyone thinks whether they are a HCP or not when the evidence exists?

duffed, it is not actually hard to make up formula safely, but many people are not aware of how to do it that way. We have a cultural bias in the UK to thinking that the water is the risky part of formula preparation, and that as long as the water has been boiled all is well....even if the water is cool or cold when the powder is added to it. But this is not the case.

There are threads a few times a week about this, and many new formula feeders and established formula feeders just don't know. So while there is nothing especially difficult about following the instructions, many people don't.

It's just pointless though isn't it. No one whatever the viewpoint was sure what it meant. But yes it was one. Been on here too long, I suppose I'm getting quite dramatic.

Why should we care what anyone thinks full stop

how other people feed their children has buggar all to do with anyone else

Seems to me the feel of this thread has been:

a) if there were health implications then we would know about it
b) the NHS are just out to make people feel shit.

Maybe I could suggest c) there are implications, we do know about them and they are the reason the NHS is trying to raise BF levels.

Making people who tried and had to switch to FF feel shit is a terrible biproduct of getting this message out.

I would rather people knew the facts and made an informed decision about feeding method than everybody was blissfully happy in ignorance that their choices could badly (up to and including fatally) affect their baby.

I agree with your point entirely with regards ethical marketing. But from what I could see they are all pretty much the same. Personally a free cuddly cow would not in anyway factor in to a decision about what to give my baby. Waste of their money.

"Why should we care what anyone thinks whether they are a HCP or not when the evidence exists?"

Quite.

IME health professionals working with mothers and babies are often woefully ill-informed, don't read research and don't update their practice unless forced to when it comes to breastfeeding.

It's also interesting that there's this insistence that there needs to be completely clear and unequivocal proof that breastfeeding has benefits, and no concern at all of the dearth of evidence that formula is as safe and as beneficial as breastfeeding in the short, medium or long term.

i know the way of preparing formula has changed since my first child to my current. i spoke to a breast feeding counsellor and if i remember what she said correctly was that there was 2 babies that dies from badly prepared bottles and in true nhs style rather than educate properly they scaremonger and just outright said no you cant do it that way any more. sounds about right to be fair.

Seems to me this thread has been about people being bothered about what other people choose to do with their children. Which is not really anyone elses business.......

duffed, what she said was not quite right, though there have been a number of fatalities directly caused by formula bacteria, happily rare in the developed world; most babies who are ill as a result of unsafely-prepared formula in the UK don't die, but are treated and made well again. I do think families should be aware of the guidance about safe preparation, even if the truly serious consequences are rare.....not sure what you're suggesting....do you not agree?

I agree tiktok and also agree the guidelines are clear & easy to follow. But it's such a hot potato this topic lots of staff in hospital seem very nervous to discuss ff at all. Thats my experience anyway.

Course you could use the ready made up cartons......that gets rid of a lot of the issues

I combi feed DS and use the Aptamil ready made up cartons. Lots less faff and hassle (obvioulsy bottles need to be cleaned and sterilised but it does get rid of the need to be boiling kettles and the concern over bacteria in the powder)

pickles I think you are right about some (some) maternity staff being nervous. This is why bf training of HCPs should (and sometimes does) address the issue of 'what can we say about formula?'. I'd like to see more mothers who feel let down about this in hospital, especially the ones who have been told, 'I can't tell you about that' (WTF?) complain ....

I use ready made too. Even though I'd seen the stat that there had been 60 deaths in 40 years worldwide based on bacteria in formula powder. When things like that have been discussed on here it's so low apparently because it's under reported or thought to be something else. In my newborn lack of sleep state I couldn't cope with the stress of the risk, even though it is minute.

Feeding your babies is very emotional. Words such as better, worse, artificial, Natural, riskier etc are not neutral.

This thread mostly about people objecting to other people being given advice by HCPs and the WHO about what to do with their children. Children are not their parents' possessions, they have interests of their own which governments attempt, for better or worse, to represent.

catgirl true, but the cost of cartons is very high compared to dried formula - they should be brought down to a permanent low price, too. God knows what the mark up is!

BTW, pickles, it's not really a waste of the formula manufacturers' money to make cuddly cows and other cheap tat - the money comes from the people who buy the formula! And the calculations will have been done, to ensure the tat does work for the brand....it's brand awareness which is very important in marketing. I mean, why else does Cow&Gate give away a cow, and not say, an aardvark?

That's true tiktok - they are a small fortune (I think about 85p each and I suppose a fully FF baby would have maybe 5 day, so £30 per week) .

You are right I am generally not too swayed by things like that. I spend an hour in the formula section of tescos lined up all the boxes and deduced they seemed much of a muchness. Yes the money comes from us but it's their profits they are using. I see your point in that they must work or they wouldn't do it. I do agree about ethical advertising. I would like to see this. I was very befuddled when I had to choose one.

It's not dilys. I would love to have been given more advice.

Google Infant milks in the UK - The Caroline Walker Trust for an independent and evidence-based assessment of infant formula brands and how they differ (not very much).

If you were going to use formula and wanted a bit of cheap tat, and didn't mind your baby being a walking advert, then selecting between a cuddly cow and a fluffy polar bear is as good a way as any of deciding which brand :)

I got a free cow in the post. It was shit. I don't think the baby would be a walking advert in particular. You can't really get away from using branded baby things or products at some point.

sorry lunch, dont agree with what? the new "rules/guidelines" they are not really that different just dont pre make bottles. i prob would have ignored/ not noticed this, but my dp who had, had a child more recently than me pointed it out to me and said it was really important, which made me laugh. but he was really earnest about it so fair enough we dont make up bottle in advance, but still do plenty of things you are not "suppose" to do.

polar bear defo

yeah, we are cute

I've been following this thread with interest and while I would not like to wade in to the contentious stuff it is now touching on something I have often wondered. Has formula changed its recipe much in the 40 odd years since I was fed it? If it has (and I guess it probably has???) this leads to questions as to how studies deal with this.