Aibu? to be pissed off at this: "The cost and social implications of using an infant milk should be considered when deciding how to feed your baby."

[Selyna]

WTF do Hipp mean by social implications?

Both methods of feeding a baby are acceptable so fuck off with the whole acting like ff is poison! my dd is perfectly fine but i hate this constant making me feel like a failure because i failed to bf although i tried so so hard!

I see what you mean brett, sorry.

But your original assertion was that the higher rates of gastroenteritis was down to dirty kitchens. Even if true - is that not a reason to increase bf rates to decrease infection?

and do you know it's solely down to dirty kitchens, or are yoyu infact guessing?

and has anyone shown me a bf militant yet?

ok - show where the confounding factors have been taken into account..stats are complex and often misinterpreted by the DM and the likes. It's all inconclusive currently

Whatmeworry - studies on infant feeding in the generally control for:
Social class
Income
Age
Smoking status
Gestational age at birth

Which you'd know if you'd given the research any serious consideration. Or even read and good quality reviews of the evidence.

You're not one though to let your complete ignorance of the facts get in the way of giving forth authoritatively on this subject though, are you?

If it was up to me I'd ban ALL formula marketing and only allow information on formula put together by impartial third parties to be disseminated.

Me too, the follow-on formula adds make my blood boil, pick the smallest 6 month old baby you can find and then show how perfectly normal it is to stop BFing when they're little because after 6 months your breastmilk doesn't work because babies need IRON! Don't even get me started on the women BFing whilst looking at the aptamil page.

I say this as someone BF but also has quite happily used formula. In fact I don't object to formula in the slightest, I think it's marvellous that the option exists for when BFing doesn't go to plan, when mothers can't be there etc. I just hate the way that formula is subliminally rammed down our throats as being best and most normal way for a baby to be fed.

I would ban all militant BF'ers from trying to pressurise new Mum's into choosing to breastfeed.

The only pressure I had to BF came from HCP, I took the leaflets many I was at the ante-natal classes with did not and just ignored the information, this wasn't questioned. Yes, some people are overly enthusiastic and a bit judgemental, which clearly does more harm than good, but why on earth shouldn't new mums be encouraged to BF.

I find it very skewed that people see it as more acceptable for major corporations to sell us artifical baby milk than they do for mothers to be given information on how they can feed their babies with their own milk, handily designed by nature.

Yet again I am just amazed at how much some people care what other people do with their children.

I don't care if you exclusively breast feed till they are 33 or use formula right from the get go. As long as people are happy and babies are being fed I am not sure why people get so het up.

Feed your children how you want to, how you have to, how you need and however works best and support other people in doing the same. If you think formula is poison and you are able to ebf, then good for you. But leave other people alone.

Its based on basic common sense stealth which is often lacking in this whole ridiculous debate.

I know a top consultant gynae who pays a lot of attention to studies AND the anecdotal stuff

Stealth - I work in conjunction with Surestart the information is everywhere I dont see how it is not very well publicised?

basic common sense that ALL additional cases of gastroenteritis in ff infants are caused by dirty kitchens?
Really?

LOL at Sausagesandmarmalade's "I don't blindly believe statistics....."

Reminds me of Stewart Lee's anecdote about an argument about homosexuality he had with a homophobic taxi driver. Said driver listened to Lee's patient rebuttal, and came back with, "Well, you can prove anything with facts."

sorry fuzzy, not sure what you're responding to? What have I said is not well publicised?

Excellent post catgirl and the very point I was trying to make...

I find it very skewed that people see it as more acceptable for major corporations to sell us artifical baby milk than they do for mothers to be given information on how they can feed their babies with their own milk, handily designed by nature.

Meaning whom exactly thefurryone?
Where does that notion come from? Has anyone here actually said that?

Fuzzywuzzy - what particular review of the evidence are you referring to which concludes that infant feeding is largely irrelevant?

Honestly - must duck out of this thread now. Once it declines into ignorant denials of long accepted and well supported truths - well, there isn't anywhere to go from there. You can't argue about the evidence with people whose knowledge of the subject is both totally superficial and self-serving. That way madness lies...

Did I say all? Good hygeine and correctly preparing bottles cuts the risks that is all I mean.

Lol @ shag clearly anyone not 100% convinced by all the bf'ing evidence is talking shite.

I know of a militant BF er "The mother's milk...is not her own to do with as she pleases; it is his [the baby] - his birthright. It has been proved again and again that practically every woman can feed her baby for nine months if she will take the trouble to learn how to do so" then she goes on to berate doctors and midwives for the poor advice they give. She was Mrs Sydney Frankenburg and her book was first published in 1922. The birthright bit makes me want to blub for some reason, beautiful way of expressing it (pardon the pun).

WHATMEWORRY

"It's not free though, you either buy the calories and put them in the mother or buy them and put them in the baby direct"

That is a great line. You should work in advertising. :):):)

Not arguing with that brett - so you're happy that it's not all additional cases

Also, so does bf btw - if more people bf, fewer children would get gastroenteritis due to dirty bottles

My great aunt never smoked and died of lung cancer. Therefore smoking is not a cause of lung cancer.

(Not comparing ff to smoking in ANY way - it's the logic analogy that is the point, not the content. If anyone misquotes me, I will be furious)

I'd rather put the cake calories in me first, that way we both benefit

Stealth, recently there was an advert showing Piri Weepu (rugby player) bottle feeding his baby. La Leche League complained to the New Zealand govt and the images were removed. That is an example of bf militants making people feel bad for not bf and implying that there is something wrong in giving a baby a bottle.

I just don't get these threads at all.

I'm bfing a toddler (2.3) and I have to say that I am the ONLY person I know doing so. People raise eyebrows all over the place when they find out.

I was also one of only a handful of mums who even attempted bf from the start - most went straight to formula and indeed the post labour ward offered free formula to mums not wishing to bf without batting an eyelid.

What I'm saying is that FF IS FAR MORE SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE THAN BF and I can't see how anybody can say otherwise. MOST people do it.

I'm puzzled!

brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2012/02/la-leche-and-piri-weepu-when-helpful-persuasion-becomes-harmful-fanaticism/

Molly - I have worked in areas where a high proportion of people FF. These areas tend to be full of health inequalities and also very high users of health and social services. Chronic obesity, diabetes etc....

I'm afraid those inequalities start at birth. The research proves that they do. Over 3000 research articles so if you work with people you should know this.

"It has been proved again and again that practically every woman can feed her baby for nine months if she will take the trouble to learn how to do so"

I "took the trouble" and made my very best effort to BF, had all the right advice from many midwives etc. and was told I was doing it right. I was extremely disappointed when I very reluctantly had to introduce formula, to allow baby to stop losing weight. They had to admit that I was one of the women who actually couldn't breastfeed. It makes me angry when it's implied that when it doesn't work it's due to laziness - my experience wasn't like that at all!