to be amused that the more exclusive a school is..

[seeker]

.. by faith, fees, ability, aptitude..whatever- the more diverse a community the school's parents say it is.

seeker I do not believe for one second that the high school has the same diversity as the grammar.

The DC at the later will contain hardly any DC on FSM, the former will.
The socio demographics of grammars are completely different.

Also the numbers of DC with SEN will be far greater at the high school.

Unless your are the only two schools in the UK where this is not played out.

Look we all understand the choices you have had to make. Many of us have said as much. Life is imperfect when it comes to the education of our DC. But please have the good grace not to sneer at others in this way.

theoriginal it's fine to care.

But to berate others for choices you have made yourself?

I don't think moving would suggest we only care about things on our own doorstep. I think it would suggest that we believe in something enough to practice what we preach.

Like I said, Seeker must have very strong reasons for not moving given how passionately she feels about the Kent system.

seeker any chance you could answer my question? I'm not haranguing, just interested. As I said, I have a very different perspective that sees ethnic diversity as incredibly important, whereas you seem to suggest that you think its not.

but seeker you've not answered my question about what if you lived in the catchment for an equally poor comprehensive? The lowest comprehensives in the poorest areas have not dissimilar academic makeups of children to secondary moderns.

What is the threshold of high achieving children do you need in a school before it is suitable for your dc? We know you think 10 isn't enough, would 18 be OK? Or is it the percentage that matters? What are your criteria?

How would moving away be practising what she preaches? I don't see that at all.

I dunno, I know that it would be very awkward for us to just move because we didn't like the schools. Whe you live is factored around one or possibly two peoples commutes, where you can afford... For me it would be quite a small radius.

TOSN. But lots of people support the grammar system. Tbh I have always liked the grammar system because it promotes social mobility. Having said that I really feel for seeker. The pain of what she is going through is pretty obvious. The system sucks for children like her ds who are bright but just missed out. I have to say that would send me over the edge and it has really made me question whether my idealist view of grammars is flawed.
Seeker. I really, really feel for you

Re. Ethnic vs class diversity, My own response would be that if the area in which you live is ethnically diverse then fine and good, and if it isn't then the schools won't be: either way, they will reflect where you actually come from, and more importantly, they don't exclude anyone for being the wrong kind of diverse (ie, poor or not very clever). The exception would be faith schools which you will not be surprised to hear I am also against.

But to buy ethnic diversity which excludes social diversity is not the same. It's not, by definition, diverse.

"seeker I do not believe for one second that the high school has the same diversity as the grammar."

Of course it hasn't. Read my post.

I don't think I sneer. But if I do, it's at those who are not honest about their choices. I have a family member who suddenly decided that they wanted to go back to the faith- "it's so important for children to be in touch with their roots." And when said child left the outstanding RC primary school the family never went to Church again. for example. And the children who are "too bright" for state school......and....and..and...

Lots of reasons why moving might not be an option, and also, if you believe passionately in supporting your local school buying your way out of a catchment might be considered akin to going private.

TOSN, it woud be practicing what she preaches because it would mean moving her own children out of the system she so strongly disagrees with. By staying put (for whatever reason) she is keeping her children in a system that she doesn't think should exist, when there are other options available not too far away.

What- the why don't I move question? Because for family, work and other reasons, I can't. And I don't want to.

By the way, my outrage about this is not actually about my own children's situation, either of them. They are/ will do very well and be very happy.

You see things as too black and white seeker. So people, find religion to go to a better school sometimes - if that's the system you live in and the local comp is no better than your ds's school how is that any worse than you using the grammar?

Nit areas that are ethically diverse don't automatically have schools which are. What you sometimes find is that one school is very white, and one only a mile down the road isn't. That's my experience, and that of my sister who is a teacher in a highly ethnically diverse area.

And its no less diverse than buying social diversity that excludes ethnic diversity. I would love to find a school that is both ethnically and socially and religiously and any other-ly diverse. But they are pretty few and far between. The point is, social diversity doesn't trump ethnic, especially if you are (as I was) the only Asian kid in the school. Bloody miserable experience that was, let me tell you. The fact that I had social similarities with my classmates didn't make one blind bit of difference. I still had to put up with racism every single day.

Its a very white perspective to think ethnic diversity doesn't matter. It matters just as much as social diversity, and to some people it may matter more. Seeker values social diversity above ethnic, I value ethnic over social. It doesn't make one of us right and one wrong. Just aiming for diversity from two different perspectives.

The trouble is theoriginal whilst one might live in an area of diversity, it may exist in quite concentrated pockets.

The school at which I'm a governor is predominantly populated by Muslim from the Bangladeshi community. But that doesn't reflect the greater area at all. There are so many different culturess there. And white working class are still the majority numerically.

If you were say, Jewish, I think this school would be a very difficult place to be educated.

The only school in the greater area where you would find a reasonable mix of ethnicities is private.

I do not have a choice of a more diverse school for my son. The high school is not more diverse than the grammar. So what's with the "exclusive" stuff, Seeker?
I'm still not getting exactly what your beef is?

I would value ethnic diversity over economic diversity too. I am from an ethnic minority although my dc are pretty much white. I think my children have far more to learn from people from other religions and cultures than they have to learn from people who are poorer than us. Sounds horrible, but I think it's true.

I should be clear that I am posting from a totally theoretical viewpoint, BTW - I'm a UK expat living overseas so my DD doesn't have the option of attending state in the UK right now. Or probably ever. She's at a local private school (learning a new language every time we move country being an impossible burden for her to bear if we enrolled her in the local school system). Just for clarity's sake.

seeker. I think it's really sad that you say 'my outrage about this is not actually about my own children's situation' because having read your posts is seems to me you are furious about the situation your children have found themselves in, especially your ds.
Perhaps you need to be honest with yourself. You may then start to be less angry with the world.

Totally, and that is why I am not a fan of faith schools.

Where I live the most ethnically diverse school is my daughters state primary: but the ethnicities reflect not ethnic diversity, of which there isn't much round here, but the fact that it's near the university and gets the children of overseas students and staff. It's a lovely school (though interestingly one reason it's not socially as diverse as it could be is that it's v close to another school which is where people who say things like 'I aren't being funny right but with all the different languages in that school, they're not really going to be helping the English kids).

Seeker - what are you doing to increase your children's exposure to a more diverse population.

You are very quick to criticise other people's choices but as I have pointed out in my previous posts my children are exposed to ethnic, religious and socio-economic diversity as part of their daily lives - school only being a part of that.

Very very few schools have perfect diversity do I send my children to the ethnically and religiously diverse prep school accepting that it is not economically diverse, the community school 50% FSM with where they will be part of the dominant ethnic minority and probably not mix much or appeal to try to get them into the faith primary with 14.4% FSM (low for the area) where they may be the only non-christians in their class.

Its not always possible to neatly match ideology with the reality of the choices people face - even you couldn't do that as you live in a grammar school area.