to be amused that the more exclusive a school is..

[seeker]

.. by faith, fees, ability, aptitude..whatever- the more diverse a community the school's parents say it is.

What do you call a prehistoric animal that's fast asleep?

I've sat on my hands over this for the last several hours but it keeps popping up in my Threads I'm On:
a Dinosnore.

Sorry. Had to be done.

DS's school is vair exclusive. There isn't a single kid in it from the middle or upper classes in it. Of course they don't say that these kids aren't welcome, but the figures speak for themselves. No one above the C3 demographic attends.

That really made me smile Dionne.

Just thought I would add. A ' high school' need not be a secondary modern in a grammar area. It can also be a proper comprehensive school for ages 11-14. The schools in these areas for 14-19 age group were called upper schools.

What, you mean schools like the grammar school that your daughter attends, and the grammar school that you were appealing to on behalf of your son who failed to make the cut??

Practice what you preach and people might take you seriously.

If any thing the country needs more Grammar schools not less and some technical schools for the less academically able. The economy needs all sort to lift it up.

I think the opening response by the ever well mannered and charmingpag just about sums this one up!

What a strange and nasty little thread this has turned into.

Thank god for the hide button.

Thumbwitch

I fell asleep.

The problem seeker and in fairness this applies to all of us is that we have have preconceived ideas about things. We obviously get these ideas from a variety of sources our own experiences and those of friends and family the media MN etc and these ideas are also heavily influenced by our individual philosophy on life. I spent most of the last 48 hours making outrageous comments and reinforcing many peoples ideas of parents who send their children to top boys independent boarding schools. I've been accused of being selfish of not having good manners and apparently I've lost your respect (frankly I wasn't aware I had it in the first place) and most worryingly I've been told to back off and stop posting views that others couldn't agree with!!
Unless you looked at every school in the UK be it independent or state you cannot make judgements and many posters on here do feel that their independent, faith, selective etc. school is diverse they may be wrong but that is their view. This applies to so much in education and in fact life.
I accept that you think a state/independent system is unfair and I can see exactly where you are coming from of course its unfair that those with money can buy a better education for their children which may also promise better outcomes. This also applies to the NNS although thankfully currently the NHS offers better medical care if not better food although if these cuts carry on that will soon not be the case!
In the last few weeks many of the threads on MN have been rather aggressive I read another one where a poster was really unkind and spiteful perhaps we all need to calm down after all isn't this just meant to be a bit of fun?
By the way far from having bad manners I have a reputation (which can be hard to live up too) for good manners. I recently met a MNer for coffee she was completely taken a back "I thought you'd be so serious you are far from that" unfortunately for you didn't know this and I find it amusing to post outrageous comments!

It's not about money.

It's about selection.

It's about creating and reinforcing divisions in society.

It's about whether we think working for a fairer society is a good thing.

It's about whether we believe in questioning the status quo.

It's about whether we have a "looking out for number 1" mindset.

Right, fair enough. So why send your own kids to the grammar school then? it doesnt exactly strengthen your case.

Ask Diane Abbott.

seeker regarding these two quotes from you:

"I don't honestly think that mixing with loads of affluent middle class children of lots of different colours is exactly diverse, is it?"

and

"But in a private school the class similarities are going to be much stronger than the cultural, ethnic and religious differences"

It sounds from those quotes as if you are saying that class diversity is more important, somehow trumps, ethnic diversity, for example.

And I honestly don't understand why you would think that - can you explain? As someone from an ethnic minority, ethnic diversity for me in schools is just as important as class or income diversity. I'm not sure quite why you would think it isn't - or indeed that class binds people more than ethnicity. Rich people are racist too, you know. They don't suddenly become welcoming and invite you round to play just because your parents have money. Far from it.

Happy, if you are going to post deliberately 'outrageous' things, how are you expecting people to react?

You and I were pretty much arguing the same point on the other education thread yesterday, so I for one was in agreement with you.

I'm not going to go back and try to work out which of your posts were genuine and which were just you trying to get a cheap thrill out of winding people up, but frankly, I think that's a wierd thing to do on the Internet. We can't see each other to be able to work out a posters meaning, we can only go from words on a screen. Most of us don't know each other, so personally I find it better to take each post at face value.

When you post asking a question that could easily be perfectly genuine, then later say you were joking, I think that's rude. I accused you of having no manners because I believed that you were asking about something you didn't know, I answered, as did others, then you chose to only thank one person for making the effort for trying to inform you. How are Randoms on the Internet supposed to know that you were joking and live in Kent so do know the difference between the different types of school? I didn't know the difference when I first had children, my only personal experience of school had been private with friends at comps, and I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't know the different types of school because they have no need to know.

Whether you are genuinely well mannered or not, your more recent posts really haven't shown good manners.

Well why on earth don't you do soemthing about it then seeker ?

You have a caste iron opportunity to use a diverse school for your son. Sure, it's not ideal, but it will be much more diverse than the grammar school you want him to go to.

If diversity matters to you, in the way you say it should matter to everyone else, then put your money where your mouth is.

If you spend more time actually doing stuff about the system, than on here pointing fingers at complete strangers (who frankly are not going to pull their DC out of their selective school anymore than you are going to pull your DD out, or your DS if your appeal is successful.) you might make a real difference to the lives of some real children.

You seem to want everyone else to change, whilst not being prepared to change yourself.

You have to lead from the front no?

"Right, fair enough. So why send your own kids to the grammar school then? it doesnt exactly strengthen your case.

Ask Diane Abbott."

Because I live in a grammar school area. You seem to know quite a lot about my personal circumstances, so presumably you know that already. It's funny how people bring this up as if they've discovered a dirty little secret about me.
When in fact I have never attempted to hide it and have ranted about it so much on here that many regular posters have actually died of boredom.

If one didn't use the grammars in that situation, though, wouldn't one lay oneself open to accusations of sour grapes and not understanding how great the grammars are, and wanting everyone to 'level down' etc?

Seeker, why do you come across as if you value economic diversity so much more than ethnic or religious or cultural diversity?

I find it quite intriguing that you feel the way you do, and I would love to look inside your brain and see what's going on!

I completely agree with TheBossOfMe. I don't understand why, if you feel so strongly about something, you don't practice it with your own children.

Why don't you move then seeker? Surely there are comprehensives not that far away from where you need to live. I think if you moved your children to your preferred system you may find some sort of closure.

See I don't buy this idea that you have to use the grammar, any more than you would buy it if I said I have to use independent school.

The high schools in your area will not have had every single bright child creamed off. Many will have flunked the exam. Many will not have been afforded the opportunity to prep. Some parents will be making a stand against the system (imagine that!!!). Some parents will not give a shit and their kids won't have even sat the exam. Some families will be new to the area and not be able to take the test.

The diffeence between us is that I am not trying to laugh, critisise or berate those who have made similar choices.

Word factory. You have no idea what I do with the rest of my life- and I am not going to put details on here. Please don't assume that the Internet is the only place where I am active.

I do not have a choice of a more diverse school for my son. The high school is not more diverse than the grammar- it just contains a different social make up of white british children! As and Bs at the grammar, Cs and Ds at the High School. To put it crudely. Differently non-diverse.

In fairness, you have always had this opinion, I can remember simelar conversations in the last year when you have been very open about your position. I name change btw, but I have has the same conversation with you about grammars in the past.

Your reasons for not moving must be very strong. Most people move for schools they really want if they are able to.

seeker. Can you not move out of the area where the grammar/secondary modern system applies? This is obviously a massive issue for you and you are going to spend years being unhappy if you stay put with your current situation.

I would have thought most people couldnt move, surely? I know plenty do, but surely usually most of us would be constrained by something or other?

thebest but that would suggest we only care about things which are on our doorstep and directly affect us, wouldn't it? That can't be right, surely? I don't live anywhere near a grammar, but I still think they are wrong!