by trying to support 6yo DSS in trying to get dry overnight (long,sorry!)

[spg1983]

Ok, DSS is 6, and is quite a big boy for his age (tall, not fat!) During the day he is totally dry but has never been dry at night. DH, his mum and I have all taken the same approach in terms of not stressing him about it but things are getting worse as he gets older - despite him wearing night nappies and having a mattress protector, he is still overflowing and often waking up in wet clothes and sheets. He drinks a lot, has had several tests showing ketones in urine but has tested negative for diabetes.

DSS is, and always has been, a very heavy sleeper. His mum has talked to his doctor who refuses to do anything until he's 7. Lifting does not work as he just will not wake up so we have been trying to limit fluids in the evenings. He always goes to the toilet before bed but...here's the problem. His mum will always give him a drink to take to bed, and it is always empty by the morning. He drinks it pretty much as soon as she leaves the room just after tucking him in (I've been at hers at bedtime and heard him do this - cheeky monkey!)

When he stays at ours each weekend, we don't let him have a drink as we explain it'll help him to get through the night without wetting. He accepts this but for a couple of weeks he's been really pushing for a drink, and DH has 'caved' by saying he'll bring a drink up when we go to bed. DSS then wakes up in the middle of the night, drinks it all and wakes up wet :(

Tonight when we put him to bed, DH again promised a drink. I then added 'can you make us a promise...if you do wake up and decide to have a drink, will you then go and have a wee straight afterwards?'...DSS looked very dubious and said he just wanted to stay in bed! He has a night light in his room and in the hallway. He is next door to the toilet. AIBU in trying to move things forward and WIBU to speak to DH about stopping bedtime drinks? Am just soooo fed up of stinky wet sheets and condescending looks from others when they see him in night nappies, plus the overall feeling of going along with unhelpful routines...

Yes...definitely a full glass. And...it's just turned out that his mum has also asked him to do the same thing, so actually we are all doing the same thing (even though I do admit we should've all discussed this). She's just spoken to DH and said that she'd forgotten to tell us that she'd asked him to do this and would we mind doing it too? Apparently her other half heard him get up in the night during the week and heard him drinking and moving about (!) and she's since suggested that as he's awake anyway and filling up with drink, he should go to the loo.

Makes me feel a bit better that he's actually not being told different things-thank goodness.

Just a thought - if you can keep him on water / milk afternoon onwards it might help. DD couldn't (& still can't 90% of time) do acid fruits / fruit juice after lunchtime and stay dry at night. Banana at tea time was fine, but juice / apple = flash flood. She could have hot milk (huge mug) right before bed and no accidents. I tried lots of combinations out and told DD it was an experiment and not to worry if she still wet the bed .....basically milk and water good; fruit juice, acidic fruit and sugary stuff not good; milk can help calm down the dodgy stuff if GPs have insisted on feeding it to her at tea time.

She was very despairing, and what helped was making her think she could do it and she was in control, and praising the positive steps forward. However she did care that I was having to wash her sheets all the time, so wanted to be dry so badly and also because she hated feeling wet!

I don't think you are being at all unreasonable and sounds like a good plan to me - puts him in control of being dry. Also DD has wanted to help me strip the bed and sort it out. (she is 5 nearly 6 and we went through this when she was 4/5)

I'm not being sexist here, but generally boys are more prone than girls to night-weeing (I can't spell enueresis)

I get where OP is coming from (DS not night-dry until well past 7th birthday). He needs to accept for himself that his night-time drink is making it more difficult to be dry at night, OP can't do this without his full cooperation. So real challenge is convincing him that the night-time drinks are worth stopping, convincing him to try reduced fluids near bedtime as an experiment. But if the experiment doesn't succeed after 3 weeks I would let him have night time drinks again if he asked, take the pressure back off. Since the drink is a comfort habit maybe he could choose a different comfort habit. Try to give him control in the process of getting dry at night.

If he's as heavy a sleeper as DS was (is) he just can't get himself awake in time and nothing but time will sort him out.

ps: who is giving him condescending looks about wearing night nappies? How do they know, when do they see the night nappies?

The looks come from family members and friends when they see him changing for bed. They have all either had children who were dry very early or just do not have children.

The problem we have is that he often falls asleep in the car do if we are out somewhere and don't want to leave stupidly early, we pretty much have to get him ready for bed before getting him into the car as otherwise he's impossible to get changed etc when he's asleep. An answer would be to get him changed in private but I feel that'd be stigmatising him and making him feel that there's something to hide.

Sorry-should be "if we don't want to leave stupidly early"

I haven't read all the replies but you must limit drinks before bedtime, I know someone linked to the ERIC website here and said there is no evidence but what it actually does say is no drinks 1 1/2 hours before bed.

From the ERIC website

"There is no need to stop a child drinking before going to bed. Simply drink normally until an hour and a half before going to bed and then drink only mouthfuls instead of full glasses to relieve thirst."

They advise you to get the child to drink normal amounts in the day, not to limit the amount they drink all day and certainly not to take a drink to bed.

My ds1 still very occasionally wets the bed, he is now just 9. We took him to the doctors because he was going on a residential school trip at 7 1/2 otherwise the GP wasn't interested until he was 9.

It is more common than you think, people just don't talk about it.

I think YANBU to want him to be dry and one of the ways you can help him is to insist that his last drink is at dinner time. Have a read of the info on the ERIC site.

I see the OPSs side completely.
He is awake to drink, but won't get up to go to the toilet. And says so!

well, ahem, all the not-ready-and-can't-help it stuff just doesn't apply. Some children are unaware and can't control it, but this child can, at least partially.
He is awake, and chooses not to go for a wee.
I second whoever said 'leave his drink in the bathroom'.
And water only, never ever blackcurrant.

when I said limiting fluids last night I meant in the evening and at night. It seems pretty obvious to me that if you don't drink so much you won't wee so much! I don't think children should need to drink after their last meal of the day.
And yes there are medical reasons and hormones etc but some children are just too lazy/sleepy to get up for a wee.

To go back to your original point- no YANBU, he should be made/encouraged to go to the toilet if he's awake to drink. And as you can't enforce this if you're asleep I think leaving the water in the bathroom could be a good idea. It'll also let you see if he really does need that drink- I bet he doesn't drink so much if he has to go and get it.

I'm a bit surprised he doesn't get changed in private, just because he's getting to the age that he would want the privacy for himself, anyway. that might be easier way to deal with problem of contemptuous looks.

He's never been worried about covering himself up in public or changing in private etc. Whether that's right or wrong (probably a whole new thread!), if we start changing things now, he'll wonder why. Obviously when he's at an age where it's no longer appropriate then that's fine. He is quite babyish in that respect, he really has no qualms about his body.

Personally, I'd take him out of night nappies, just deal with a good mattress protector that is machine washable / tumble driable and lots of cheap sheet and understand that you are going to change his bed everyday.

With what you save in night nappies, you can buy him a new mattress when he's dry.

The night nappies aren't working anyway and they are removing your DSS's need to take responsibilty for night toileting.

I did this with my DS because the night nappies weren't helping and he was totally dry within a few weeks. (DS is 4 and has been dry at night for about 6 months. WHen I saw what had happened with DS, I did the same with DD (who was just over two but dry in the day). Again, dry in no time.

I'm not saying it would work like this for everyone, but it has to be worth a try, given you say that the night naps aren't working anyway and he isn't too keen on taking responsibility for it....

spg1983 your DSS mum needs to get his doctor to test for a hormone that means they can't control their pee levels.
I know you said he's been tested for diabetes and it was negetive.

If he needs to drink at night then get him checked for diabetes insipidus. It's rare but the urge to drink and wee is the main symptom.
And there's a hormone that tells the brain to filter and recycle the fluid in the kidneys, which is why morning wee is dark and stronger/more concentrated.

But bargaining with a 6yo "If I let you have this drink will you get up and go to the loo" is futile. They'll agree for the drink, and forget at the time they want to pee.

<strong>ERIC</strong> website is good, but alot of the products are aimed to help people who have long term medical conditions (adults and children) who need ongoing continence problems.

Hi spg, I don't think YABU. I have a 6 and a half year old who is only recently dry at night and still has the odd accident. He's a really deep sleeper too, and I've been in to him in the past to find him fast asleep in soaking wet pyjamas, but still asleep. I do think putting a drink in the bathroom is a good idea, because he might be reaching for a drink half asleep without being fully aware - we've had a few nights where ds has been crying in his sleep and coming downstairs to us, and he has no recollection in the morning.

What worked for us in the end was stopping any squash after lunch (a friend told me that blackcurrant is a bladder irritant) and then water stops at 6.30, but we encourage him to have a big drink of water with his tea. If he's desperate for a drink we give him small sips. This worked almost immediately for us and he's fine with it too, as h e prefers to not wear pull ups.

I agree YANBU. I did exactly the same as Lordy, after years of telling myself that it would all happen of its own accord one day and it was all down to genetics/science etc. I just went cold turkey, took DS1 (5) out of night nappies and went for it (armed with good mattress protectors and prepared for a few disturbed nights). After about 5 nights, he got it, and has been dry ever since (that was 6 months ago). I firmly believe that the night nappy was giving him the security of not needing to bother trying. Once that security was taken away, he had to take responsibility for it himself.

Can you give him an empty glass and if he'd like to drink he has to walk to the bathroom to fill it? And while he's there have a pee.

I hate to tell you this but from personal experience this condition can last well into the 'teens and you can't always 'solve' it. I have 4 children, 2 of whom still wet the bed (one is 5 and one is almost 10). We have tried most things and they haven't worked YET. However the alarm system DID work for one of their siblings when she was 6 and it only took 3 weeks - different children respond to different treatments! In the meantime perhaps the only thing you can do is be patient and kind and reassure your DSS that it isn't his fault and he will eventually grow out of it. IMO I wouldn't restrict his bedtime drink as I don't think this makes any difference and could just cause more distress.

As PBanJSandwiches suggests - the ERIC website is full of helpful information and gives an insight into the condition. It's often genetic/hormonal. Yes it is frustrating changing soggy clothes/bedding but that's probably going to carry on for a while longer. As for the 'condescending looks' you're getting from others (re pull-ups) - well just ignore them as they obviously are very ignorant about the situation.

Good luck!

Agree SOOO much with Chitterchatter about the condescending looks.

What works for one child may simply not work for another. You sound like you are treating this seriously to get it sorted, but without distressing the child, which is the way it should be.

My DS was not out of nappies in the day till he was 3.3YO. My DD was out of them by 20Mo!! Now they are coming up 4 and coming up 3.. you would never be able to guess which one was early and which was late

As PBandJSandwiches suggests, have a look at the ERIC website. It's got loads of great advice. I've got 4 children, 2 of whom still wet the bed despite us trying different strategies (age 5 and almost 10). I know (from personal experience) that it can take years to resolve itself and IMO I wouldn't stop the bedtime drink as this often this makes no difference and can cause unecessary stress. Often it's a genetic/hormonal thing and the only thing you can do is be kind and patient and not allow your DSS to feel pressured into stopping this as it's not his fault.

One of my other children used to wet the bed and she did respond really well to the alarm system - it just took 3 weeks for her. It hasn't worked at all for my other two so I guess all children respond differently. Yes, it isn't great having to change soggy clothes/bedding but I guess that's one of the less attractive things we have to do as a parent! To be honest I have good mattress protectors and don't think twice about changing the sheets when I have to. I have never made it an 'issue' as I know that would just make the whole situation worse for my DC's.

As for the 'condescending looks' you're getting from other family members (regarding the pull-up pants) - well they're just being plain ignorant about this condition. Perhaps you need to explain to them that it's a medical condition which he'll eventually grow out of. It's certainly not caused by 'bad' parenting if that's what they're implying!!

Good luck.

Sorry for posting twice - first one didn't show up!!!! I just feel so passionate about this issue as it was something I suffered from as a child. There we are - I've confessed now!

Ok...update. We are trying the drink in the bathroom technique tonight. DSS actually got quite excited about it when we asked him where he wanted to put it and chose the place he wanted the drink to be. We've also left the seat up and left an extra light on alongside the nightlights (which provide more than enough light but if it works then I don't care!).

He was really sweet and actually asked us "what happens if I accidentally slam the toilet seat and wake you up?" to which we replied it didn't matter and said we probably wouldn't even notice it (in reality the sudden bang would probably scare me to death but never mind!)

So...hopefully if he wakes up in the night and goes to get his drink then he'll have a wee before going back to bed. If he just doesn't wake up then that's ok too. I understand we're in this for the long run and need to be careful about how it's tackled if it continues for a significant amount of time.

And the best thing about this...I managed to plant this idea into DH's head and get him to think it was his own idea so he thinks it's a great thing to try! (thanks to people who've posted it on here - I know it was your idea, not his!!)

i think saying he can have a drink if he goes and gets it might make him think twice as he'll have to wake up more. Leave the cup in the bathroom with just a small amount of water in it so he might go to the loo while he is there.
My son is a bedwetter aged 6 and he likes a drink but I only put about one centimetre in his cup so he can wet his mouth but not a lot more. I think it's very very common for boys to be bedwetters but I know what you mean about the sheets etc, I get fed up of it. I think you're being totally reasonable.

Thanks Flynt - that's what we did when we put him to bed tonight, we'll see what happens!

QVC (I don't work for them ) sell Protect-a-Bed mattress protectors.
Either zip around complete covers or ones like a fitted sheet to cover the top of the mattress. There's no rustling noise, they don't make you sweaty.

Years ago I bought HippyChick from Boots, they are like a thick felt with a waterproof in the middle.

Loads of covers can't be tumbledried.
Not so bad if you are only using at the weekend but you want to wash them ASAP and get them dry.