by trying to support 6yo DSS in trying to get dry overnight (long,sorry!)

[spg1983]

Ok, DSS is 6, and is quite a big boy for his age (tall, not fat!) During the day he is totally dry but has never been dry at night. DH, his mum and I have all taken the same approach in terms of not stressing him about it but things are getting worse as he gets older - despite him wearing night nappies and having a mattress protector, he is still overflowing and often waking up in wet clothes and sheets. He drinks a lot, has had several tests showing ketones in urine but has tested negative for diabetes.

DSS is, and always has been, a very heavy sleeper. His mum has talked to his doctor who refuses to do anything until he's 7. Lifting does not work as he just will not wake up so we have been trying to limit fluids in the evenings. He always goes to the toilet before bed but...here's the problem. His mum will always give him a drink to take to bed, and it is always empty by the morning. He drinks it pretty much as soon as she leaves the room just after tucking him in (I've been at hers at bedtime and heard him do this - cheeky monkey!)

When he stays at ours each weekend, we don't let him have a drink as we explain it'll help him to get through the night without wetting. He accepts this but for a couple of weeks he's been really pushing for a drink, and DH has 'caved' by saying he'll bring a drink up when we go to bed. DSS then wakes up in the middle of the night, drinks it all and wakes up wet :(

Tonight when we put him to bed, DH again promised a drink. I then added 'can you make us a promise...if you do wake up and decide to have a drink, will you then go and have a wee straight afterwards?'...DSS looked very dubious and said he just wanted to stay in bed! He has a night light in his room and in the hallway. He is next door to the toilet. AIBU in trying to move things forward and WIBU to speak to DH about stopping bedtime drinks? Am just soooo fed up of stinky wet sheets and condescending looks from others when they see him in night nappies, plus the overall feeling of going along with unhelpful routines...

DS2 never took drinks to bed. He wet the bed until he was about 9 years old. He just never ever woke up. When he was little, we used DH used to lift him before he went to bed, but he would still be sopping wet the next morning.

Fwiw, he was dry during the day at about 20 months - he decided he wasn't going to wear a nappy and that was that.

X posts - Daisy's advice is far more constructive than mine .

Thanks MsVestibule - it is useful! He has said he's not scared as he has the lights on, just too comfy in bed! Although that's probably less easy to deal with than something like a fear of the dark :(

Bella - did your son just become dry one day? Must have been v frustrating.

Don't think it's cruel to make him get up and go to the loo if he wants a drink - he's awake already isn't he?

Why do you just have 'pads' in the bed? You need a waterproof mattress protector with a sheet on the top to protect the mattress. To make it easier for you you can double layer it (mattress protector, sheet, 2nd mattress protector, another sheet). Then if they wake up wet at night you just pull off the top layer of sheets and give them another duvet (M&S do a good single duvet which is designed to be frequently washed).

With my DS (5 years), he definitely has more accidents at night if he drinks a lot after 6 pm. But we don't put him in nappies, or even in pants, actually. Just his pyjamas. I was advised that nappies keep it feeling warm and comfortable whereas loose pjs make it feel 'wet' and uncomfortable, and they are more likely to wake up, which is exactly what happened with DS. If he wet during the night he would usually wake up because it felt uncomfortable. Now his accidents are usually shortly before morning - ie he doesn't 'quite' make it through the night.

Yes it's annoying to have to wash ALL of the bedding every day, but my DS would be incredibly distressed about being put back into nappies so we don't.

Eeek, by 'pads' I mean the plastic-backed sheet things that are absorbent too and protect the mattress. Like the sheet idea Chit, but I think no nappy would be a step too far for DSS- he'd stress about going to sleep without the protection it gives and we'd end up with a river running through the house...the amount of wee he produces is just superhuman!

YABU, he is just 6yo.
There is a good reason why a gP will not want to do anything until he is at least 7yo. by trying to give him responsability in something that he can not control, you are setting him up to feel bad about it.
remember what you say yourself:

• he sleeps very heavily
• he has so much urine that the nappy isn't enough (so he doesn't have any of the hormone necessary to stop having a wee during the night that have kicked in yet)
• even when he doesn't drink in the evening, he is still wet in the am.
• he is with you only at weekends (one night a week?) and his mum has a different approach the rest of the time.

He will stop needing nappies at night when is body is ready. He will be able to get pduring the night when he is awake enough to do so.
And even if it was just out of laziness which is what you are suggesting, he will do it when he has decided to do so. If he doesn't want to, you can't force him.

Spg, it just got less and less and yes it was frustrating. He would hide his pj bottoms in another draw and get a fresh pair out when he got up.

We used (and still do - although he does not know) those Pampers bedmats underneath his mattress cover.

Funny isn't it, DS1 was 2.5 years when he was dry during the day and we have never ever had a night time accident from him and yet DS2 was a lot earlier for day time but could not master the night time thing.

My DSis had this problem with her eldest son and got refered to a specialist when he was 7. They said that drinks before bedtime had little effect on him and like your DS, my DN was a very heavy sleeper.

The thing they recommended for him to do was during the day to drink a large glass of water, when he felt like he needed to go to the toilet, he had to go to the toilet and stnad in front of it, then as he felt the reflex to go to count to 10 and then totally empty his bladder, this makes them able to gain control over their bladder movements. Almost like kegel reflexs after birth.

You are doing the right thing with regards to not making it a big deal and most people now say that any kind of treatment or conditioning should not be done until they reach the age of 7.

I will try and bug her brains tomorrow if i've missed anything out.

We only stopped nappies because DS wanted to. But the double sheeting saved my sanity through the worst times!!! (Especially as he's now on the top bunk - changing the top bunk sheets at 2 am was not fun )

I also only allow DS1 about an inch of water in his night time drinking bottle. But then his problem is that he doesn't drink enough during the day, and that is why he is thirsty at night so I have a battle during the day to make him drink more.

I think you need to stop him having a drink so that you can narrow down what the reason for him not being dry is. It might be that stopping the fluid intake sorts him out. And if not you know there's a genuine reason for it.

My ds1 was only dry at night at 5 1/2 and only when he stopped wearing nappies. He wasn't as wet as your dss but he decided he wasn't going to wear nappies (his younger brother was dry) and just like that he was dry! We are pretty sure he was just being lazy.

Thanks for replies. Totally take on board the fact he is still within 'normal' age to wet the bed and in reply to GoOn, we have him 2-3 nights per week but it must be hard for him having a different approach at home. I also understand your point about him being pressured to get dry when he's maybe not ready or able but he is awake enough to sit up and have a big drink and it just breaks my heart to see him all upset in the morning (which proves he does want to be dry) when this could be helped by a toilet trip at the same time as the drink. I'm not saying he must do this but it's just a pity he can't/won't get himself into the right mindset to help himself at night when it'd make such a difference in the morning.

Debi countless posters have explained why limiting drinks is not recommended

Nighttime dryness is absolutely not lazyness fgs

SPG how about increasing fluid intake in the afterschool/teatime/pre bedtime times to see if that can reduce his need for a drink in the night. Avoid red/brown drinks (ribena, tea, cola types), milk or water best

wee/teeth/wee before lights out; if there is story time or cuddles and chat before lights out then another wee

Good luck

Could you put his drink in the bathroom so he HAS to go their and can't stay in bed?

there not their

spg, you say he is upset in the morning but can't be bothered to get up during the night.
You say he is wet at night but has no problem at all during the day.

I am sorry, but as a mother of a 7yo who still needs nappies, I think the reason he is upset in the morning is because he knows you will not be happy about it. I am sure he is able to pick up little clues that tells him so.

Also, have you ever looked at the nappy section in supermarket? Have you seen how much choice you have re night time nappies for older children? All of which propose nappies for children up to 12yo? There is a very good reason for that. That's because there is nothing wrong with a child who still wet the bed at 8 or 10yo. Yes they might be 'late' according to our expectation (wouldn't it be nice if all children were dry at night by the age of 2.5yo?) but there is nothing inherently wrong about it.
Sometimes, it also runs in families (dc1 wasn't dry until he was 6~7yo, dc2 is 7yo and still isn't dry so was her cousins and my DH's brother...).

Take the nappies away. It's working for us. DS1 is 6.7, he has ASD and only day trained at 5, but he wanted to be dry at night. We've improved from 7 wet sheets a week to about 3 or 4. (5 months in to no nappies!)

Yabu, I wet the bed until I was about 12. There was nothing I could do about it, limiting drinks didn't help and I truly had no idea until I woke up wet. At 6 he is still very young. It just went away gradually, but even now I have to go to the loo as the last thing I do before I go to sleep.
I think you just have to reassure him that he will grow out of it and encourage him to go to the loo when he needs to.

I think that what you are saying is that you are not trying to stop him wetting - just trying to cut down the volume? So he wakes up in the morning with a wet nappy not a wet bed?

I agree with whoever it was that said you should just leave the drink a bit further away so he has to get up for it. Personally I would walk a mile in the middle of the night for a drink (I always wake up horribly thirsty) but he may decide not to bother. Or at least, having got up, figure he may as well go to the loo.

YABU, mil is constantly badgering me to 'sort out' ds who is 7.5 and still not dry at night. We are following the instructions we have been given but it's not enough for her, she thinks we should just take away his nappies and 'he will soon learn'.

YABU, your attitude is suggesting that your poor DSS is 'at fault' here.
He's just not ready and that's just normal.

My DS was referred to an enuresis clinic at 7 and srated on medication but wet the bed every night until he was 14.

I had to remain philosophical about it as I knew that it was no fault of his, eventually the enuresis clinic nurse said that it sometimes takes until puberty, we stopped attending, stopped stressing, carried on washing and as puberty arrived he became dry.

I know it's hard but you just need to be matter of fact about these things and not let him see your disappointment or frustration.

YABU for all the scientific reasons stated.
And the key thing, as identified by yourself is that he is confused because you are trying to introduce a different approach to what he is used to at home. YOU are trying to change things so YOU are the one stressing the little boy out.

And just who are the condescending looks coming from ?

Argh... I feel like I should start another AIBU- is it unreasonable to expect people to actually read posts before commenting. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people thinking different things to me and saying so but for people to think that I am pressuring DSS, calling him lazy for not weeing while he's awake and making out he's abnormal for not being dry yet is just wrong...

To be fair it's probably my fault for writing such a rambly and long original post, so maybe I should sum it up into 1 sentence... Here goes:

AIBU in asking DSS to take himself to the toilet when he's awake and drinking in the middle of the night?

I know I gave more details in the original post but I felt that people needed to know the full situation and I didn't want to dripfeed.

Sassy - pretty much everyone who is with us when he's getting ready for bed. I'm not saying they're right at all - I hate the fact they do it to us and shield DSS from it as best I can.

spg1983- I read through your post, I can't see why you are being any other than reasonable.

I've been there. Myself until I was 14. There I said it. I wee'd until I was 14 yo. Of course things were different. No nice mattress protectors (plastic sheet that kept the bed sheet wet and the mattress dry) .Hospital appointment when I was 8. I had doctors appointments before then.
When my 2 DC were late (not anywhere near 14 yo though) I took them to the GPs. The GP asked me why I'd 'left it so late' with my DS. (IIRC he was 7)

Problem is when you have a deep sleep child ,they don't have that "Wake Up" alert.My son and myself could have a brass band walk through our house!

The night nappies ,though they keep your bedding dry/dry-er create a nice warm, comfy environment.They keep the skin dry, so there's no incentive to go to the loo.
I definately advocate the no drinks before bed. We were adviced no drinks for 90 minutes before bed.But let him drink as much as he wants during the day. Even now I pester my DC to drink water.I can tell when my DS is dehydrated by his breath.He smells 'mothbally'
And buy a plastic jug to measure their wee. Let them get to full bladder and measure.Do it once a week.(Children like to pee in a jug for some reason)

And through experience. Fizzy drinks, Ribena ,and with my DD ,ice-cream. (If she has ice-cream during the day, she has to go to the loo 3 times in the next hour!)

Unfortunately, if you are doing one thing and his mum something else then it will be confusing.It's really up to his mum to set the rules, but it's difficult when it's your sheets that are suffering.

I just kept telling myself:
It's not the childs fault. Though if one of my DC went to bed without a pee before bed, I'd make them strip their bed. Two minutes of their time (peeing) saves me half an hour of changing, washing, hanging out and remaking. So not telling them off but their actions have consequenses for me.
And if you take them to the loo, wake them up fully(it's difficult but they need to be fully with it), if they pee-while-drowsy, they are more likely to dream pee. And the brain incorporates the weeing into a dream, so you don't register that what you are doing isn't right.
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6 is still young. You've got 2 opposing views.
But:if he was mine, I'd bite the bullet. Get rid of night nappies, stop drinks before 90 min before bed. Double layer his sheets and protector.
Get him in to see an Enuerisis Clinic (But all the advice they gave was what I've put here)

And in reply to everyone who says don't limit drinks:

On the ERIC webdite it says don't limit drinks during the day.
But 90 minutes before bed stop the drinks and give mouthfuls of water not full glasses.
The OPs DSS sounds like he's drinking a full glass? That's how I've read it.