to think the state should pay part of our private school fees?

[wolvesarejustoldendaydogs]

Don't jump down my throat! It's just a thought.

State schools are overcrowded and there aren't enough good ones. Private schools are expensive.

What if every child had a right to have their state school 'payment' (whatever it costs per child per year') paid to a private school? Obviously parents would have to top-up (probably a considerable amount).

That would create a bit of a market, with more choice, making private schools more affordable and state ones less overcrowded.

Or is it a stupid idea for a reason I will think of soon after pressing 'POST'?

I think they have to justify it by having a number of bursaries available for poorer students. Sometimes they justify it by allowing local schools to use their facilities (eg art studio, or swimming pool, or field).

They all had to increase the amount of bursaries available recently - the effect was that the fees had to go up to cover them, which meant kids who could 'only just' afford the fees had to leave, which was an interesting bit of social engineering - the idea that the rich could go, a few 'chosen poor' could go, and the middle could just get lost.

You can't just take charitable status away from them. If a charity is directed to close, then it has to sell up and dispose of assets according to strict rules.

They have charitable status, because provision of education is in itself counted as a charitable aim (and many of the schools pre-date the state system). The Charity Commission has been looking at how far that end in itself is still valid, and the issue is not resolved.

It has long been permissible for charities to charge a fee for their services.

seeker: you were not the only poster to talk about bullying, and yes, tarring goes going all directions (unless the snidey comments about over-privileged kids and their parents are not considered unfair in the same way that generalisations about other groups are).

I'm pretty sure you can. The schools wouldn't have to wind up, they could continue operating -just not as charities.

What's your point whatmeworry?

Follow the money. No sane government is going to try and win a small battle just to lose a large war.

Edith is right I think, disposal of assets is a very complicated issue if a charity ceases to be a charity.

"seeker: you were not the only poster to talk about bullying, and yes, tarring goes going all directions (unless the snidey comments about over-privileged kids and their parents are not considered unfair in the same way that generalisations about other groups are)."

Snidy comments, while unpleasant, are not the same as saying as fact that state schools do not deal with bullying, cannot exclude trouble makers, do not have competitive sport and fail bright children. To name but q few of the generalisations I have read on here.

No seeker they couldn't as their assets have to be used for charitable purposes so they can't just convert the usage of the assets to non charitable operations.

These rules apply to all charities - see the link from Nuffield Health who provide the in house gym at my office but are a charity
www.nuffieldhealth.com/about-us/what-makes-us-different/charitable-status
"Could Nuffield Health stop being a charity?

No, we couldn?t. Legally it isn?t an option for any charity to give up charitable status to become a profit making business. Having been established as a charity, Nuffield Health must remain a charity and its assets can be used only for charitable purposes.

Nuffield Health is proud of its charitable status and would never want to stop being a charity. We believe that providing health and healthcare to the public as a charity is the right thing to do"

Like it or not, it is not possible for the schools to simply opt to give up charitable status.

The art of what's possible must mean if the decision is to convert, the organisation simply reconstitutes itself. It disposes of its assets and winds down, and reincorporates. It could even call itself a very similar name, one others easily recognize.

It seems a little disingenuous to say charitable status can never change. If that were true, there would be no debate or further work needed by the Charity Commission on educational charities.

Disposes of its assets - what like put Eton college chapel on Rightmove?

I don't remember anyone saying state schools can't deal with those things seeker. I would think a huge percentage certainly can and do. But there are some that clearly can't, such as my local primary and local secondary. The secondary was recently closed down as it was failing to such a point that things had gone past being rectified.

That would be uncharateristically crude. At least for Eton. However even "The College at Eton" could easily buy it from Eton College.

So glad we've moved from "the impossible" to simply "beneath operational dignity" type smoke screens, though.

That would be uncharateristically crude. At least for Eton. However even "The College at Eton" could easily buy it from Eton College.

I suspect there are loads of covenants on the original grants and bequeaths to prevent just that sort of thing.

Really?

Yup, really.

Although Eton is not really the problem is it? Poor Eton, used and abused by so many.

How limited some minds are, despite all that effort by the Beaks.

thirdhill The College at Eton can't buy the Chapel if the land / asset can only be used for charitable purposes because the College at Eton is not a charity.

Chaz I'm sure that none of us would admit to being legal advisors specilizing in the disposal of assets by charities. However I am reasonably confident that Eton would engage someone competent enough to reach the solution they sought. However, as I said before, Eton is hardly the problem, despite being used as a shield and bull's eye in equal measure by some.

Much earlier I cited the Finnish system where you can set up a private school, but can't keep out anyone who can afford them. Most people send their children to state schools. Quelle surprise

What you conveniently forgot to mention is the Finnish system is a Grammar school type system.

Quelle surprise....

No it brings back memories of having to learn 200 cases for my Equity and Trusts exams....

I only picked Eton because the chapel is iconic and the thought of it being on rightmove was amusing.

Its simply that charities law is very complex and giving up charitable status is not as simple as selling the assets to a profit making organisation as the assets themselves may be restricted.

"Its funny all these people who are experts on comprehensives when they neither have personal experience nor their kids to one."

I certainly haven't claimed to be an expert, but I did attend a comprehensive myself.

I absolutely agree with the OP here. The state has money to subsidise so many things and so should be an easy decision to fund anybody who wants to go to private school. That way the money spent by state has gone towards something productive and not frittered away. I would even go as far to say the state should probably fund the entire fees.

Kitty, are you taking the piss? The state has fuck all money if you haven't noticed!
I'm teaching in a classroom that boils in the summer, leaks in the rain and has holes in the walls. If the state has money spare to spend on education I'd like to see some of it before it lines the pockets of some already well-off school.